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Fun with Gruesome Familiars

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OK, let's combine my two favorite subjects: :devil:

 

Can you mercy a gruesome familiar? (Stop screaming, you in the peanut gallery! ::D: )

 

My answer is that you might be able to, but there's no point to doing so. The gruesome familiar is Necropolis specific equipment, and thus if mercied, it ceases to exist because a GF cannot exist in a Crusader army.

 

 

You answered your own question: It's equipment. You can't just go up to a solo and say "I'm not taking you. I'm just taking your Greater Magic Armor." :devil::B):

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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OK, let's combine my two favorite subjects: :devil:

 

Can you mercy a gruesome familiar? (Stop screaming, you in the peanut gallery! ::D: )

 

My answer is that you might be able to, but there's no point to doing so. The gruesome familiar is Necropolis specific equipment, and thus if mercied, it ceases to exist because a GF cannot exist in a Crusader army.

 

 

You answered your own question: It's equipment. You can't just go up to a solo and say "I'm not taking you. I'm just taking your Greater Magic Armor." :devil::B):

 

Wild Bill :blues:

 

 

It is indeed, Equipment, but it is ALSO a Model. This is clearly stated in the GF description from the Necropolis faction book. So, if it is a Model that takes damage and "dies" then it only makes sense that a GF can be granted Mercy. No?

 

The question becomes: What happens when a GF is Mercied? I would suggest that since it is Necropolis-specific Equipment then it should be treated like a Mercied Model with faction-specific Equipment: the Mercied Model cannot use (or be used in this case) because the model becomes Crusader/Good. This would mean that the GF is destroyed.

 

You might (will) ask, "Why would I want to grant Mercy to a GF then if I've already killed it?" Well, to get around Dark Energy or any Tough/* it is granted, of course. ::D:

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"Can you Mercy the Gruesome Familiar?" is rather simple to answer.

 

No.

 

Regardless of whether it is a model or equipment, it has SA: Undead, thus immunity to Mercy. Arguing the relative merits of it's Model/Equipment status for this specific point is not necessary.

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"Can you Mercy the Gruesome Familiar?" is rather simple to answer.

 

No.

 

Regardless of whether it is a model or equipment, it has SA: Undead, thus immunity to Mercy. Arguing the relative merits of it's Model/Equipment status for this specific point is not necessary.

 

 

Hmm... I'm puzzled as to why I didn't see that. :huh: Slow morning... Thanks, Qwyk, for bringing the most obvious to our attention. Apparently, we needed it. :poke:

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Don't worry, it's easy to miss the little things sometimes, especially when they are right in your face. I played with Bull Orc Hunters for almost a year before I realized they had #MA 2, instead of 1 :lol:

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I don't see where it says that a GF is a Model.

 

If a GF is a Model, then it can be given equipment of its own.

 

If a GF has the SA's of its parent Model, then a GF can have a GF. A GF would also be able to have Bindsouls. It would then be possible to have an infinite number of Bindsouls using a chain of GF's.

 

Rich

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I don't see where it says that a GF is a Model.

 

If a GF is a Model, then it can be given equipment of its own.

 

If a GF has the SA's of its parent Model, then a GF can have a GF. A GF would also be able to have Bindsouls. It would then be possible to have an infinite number of Bindsouls using a chain of GF's.

 

Rich

Quite true , but after reading the description again , I could not find anything to do with what would happen to the owning model other than it losses spells if the GF takes damage . Th GF is noted as an ITEM not a model .

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I don't see where it says that a GF is a Model.

 

Rich

Quite true , but after reading the description again , I could not find anything to do with what would happen to the owning model other than it losses spells if the GF takes damage . Th GF is noted as an ITEM not a model .

You are correct. I misread the description and it is listed under "Category: Item"; however:

 

1) A GF has stats, presumeably Damage Tracks and the Undead SA

2) A GF MUST be based on a Standard Base and therefore can Obscure and/or Block LOS

3) A GF can be attacked and damaged

4) A GF can be the Target and be affected by Non-Attack Spells as well

5) A GF can Move and conduct Loot actions

 

Can those things be said for any other Item? :blink:

 

It sure sounds like a Model to me. If it's not a Model then I would argue that it has no Damage Tracks and is, itself, invulnerable like all other Items. This would solve many of the questions being posed here. I, personally, feel that is too powerful and there are ways to circumvent the ONE drawback which is sacrificing Spells when the GF takes damage. Give one to Aysa and there are NO drawbacks (if you give her no actual Spells) or you can take some 5-point Spells to dump when the GF DOES take damage.

 

Mind you, I am a Necropolis player and I absolutely LOVE the GF, but I give it Damage Tracks when I play. I feel this balances out the Range and LOS power of the GF. If it (officially) doesn't actually have DT's, I'll be psyched, but my opponents sure won't be. :devil:

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I've poured through my Necropolis book and I can't find anything that says that the GF takes damage. It does say that the GF uses "the Casting Model's data card for all stats (and gains Undead as well)." This leads you to believe that the GF does not gain the Model's SA's or it would not have stated that it gains Undead as well since only a model with Undead can take a GF. It also sounds like the GF would have damage tracks equal to the Casting Model since it uses the data card for all stats. This is backed up by stating that if "the familiar is attacked and successfully damaged, the Casting Model must sacrifice a spell". All in all it is really hard to say for sure although I'm with Ravenwolf in thinking that if the GF is invulnerable then it's going to be very nasty.

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I've poured through my Necropolis book and I can't find anything that says that the GF takes damage. It does say that the GF uses "the Casting Model's data card for all stats (and gains Undead as well)." This leads you to believe that the GF does not gain the Model's SA's or it would not have stated that it gains Undead as well since only a model with Undead can take a GF. It also sounds like the GF would have damage tracks equal to the Casting Model since it uses the data card for all stats. This is backed up by stating that if "the familiar is attacked and successfully damaged, the Casting Model must sacrifice a spell". All in all it is really hard to say for sure although I'm with Ravenwolf in thinking that if the GF is invulnerable then it's going to be very nasty.

 

If Gruesome Familiar is a rule that other magic heavy factions (like maybe Darkspawn or Nefsokar), I would write it to include the possibility of a living mage that doesn't have the undead SA.

 

Have fun at Reapercon. I hope they decide what the rulings for GFs will be, before the tourney starts. :-)

 

(And I hope the Reaper people reading this realize that regardless of how any specific ruling goes, the GF is a really cool idea that adds a lot of interest!)

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THe big question remains, how does a Gruesome familair interact with Innate spells. Mainly Aysa + Gruesome + Innate Undying Host.

 

THe suggestion is that Aysa might take damage or might not be able to cast innate: Undying host if the Gruesome familair is damaged and she has no spells to sacrfice, but nowhere is this in print within the rules. In fact the rules say nothing about how the familair interact with the caster when they run our of spells to sacrifice, so one can assume nothing negative occurs if the familiar is attacked and no spells can be sacrificed.

 

As for the other notions, the Gruesome = a piece of equipment, nothing else. It might gain statistics for the purpose of how it interacts with the game (the only important ones are Mov, DV, MD), but it never takes damage itself, even if an enemy model successfully strikes it, and it is only removed if it's parent model dies. Let's not forget it is still a Familiar, and functions like one in other regards (returning spells).

 

I have to agree, other than Aysa's loophole it is a pretty cool little toy.

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Have any of the Reaper peeps been reading the posts under here:

 

http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21044

 

I haven't seen any official answers to the questions being posed and I was curious. There have been many interpretations of the wording of Gruesome Familiar and (I'm sure) we'd all like to see some official answers regarding these.

 

Thank you.

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[MOD] Merged same topic threads. Please don't start a new thread to ask about answers to an existing one. A bump post is usually sufficient. Also please remember that the majority of this thread was occurring just before Reaper Con started and the folks usually on to answer rules were likely involved in prepping HQ. It's also been just now a week since things wrapped. Let's give them some time to get things back in order. [/MOD]

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Roger wilco, Qwyk. My thinking was the title was not indicative of a "question" post, but of a simple discussion and that maybe it needed an appropriate title to draw that kind of attention :unsure:. It won't happen again ^_^ .

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