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Darthiir

Discussion on Aysa

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Looking at her card you might say 127 pts for a level 3/10 mage with a dv of 8. . .why take her. Well, as I have come to find out the hard way she is well worth her points especially with some equipment. Frist you don't have to give her any spells. Don't even think about them.

 

Throw on Great Magic Empower, Improved Protection, Gruesome Familiar, and as many bind souls as she can carry and she's a monster. A low level warlord at this piont even. God forbid she has another caster in the army to carry more bind souls.

 

Every round she can double move the familair out as far as she wants and cast undying host, sure the are they don't have great stats, but their there for speed bumpts, slowing down your army and making you waist time and models on killing them before then can gang up on your caster or archers. Becuase Undying Host is innate for her hitting the familiar does nothing for you. She doesn't get hurt and she doesn't lose a spell. So every round she moves her little grave digger around the board dropping and endless supply of models .

 

I'm sorry, but with the right equipment she is broken.

 

B R O K E N!

 

Maybe if she lost the use of Undying Host for a round (if she didn't bring any spells) it might be balanced but, this model is a monster.

 

Cudos to those who can exploit this model to their benefit.

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Without any purchased spells, everytime the grusome familiar gets hurt, she would take a damage. The innate spell will not save her. You can also field a squad with all the points used on her.

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I am posting this as a long time player of the Aysa/Gruesome Familiar/Bindsouls/Totem combination Crypt Legion army.

 

Darthiir brings up some very good points. Aysa becomes a very powerful Model when given the right Equipment and weighing in at 234 points. I won't say she's broken. I won't do it because broken implies the Model is unbeatable. She's not. Can she consistently kill her points worth plus? Absolutely. Broken? Nope. Granted it is easier for some Factions to beat her than others. Storm has no trouble trouncing me in 1501 point games with Overlords because he's got Cavalry and Teleports. Elves should try and flank her around with Centaurs (that almost worked for you before and why I started using IP on her) the Totem or volley into the Totem (Aysa usually hides behind it). Other Factions with Cavalry or fast Flyers can make a bee line to her. It's not easy, I know, but it's not unbeatable. I've built armies around protecting Aysa's weaknesses and I'd like to think I've found a solid army that wins handily in timed events as well as Death Matches. Does that mean my whole army is broken because of that? I don't think so. Is a Reptus army broken because Elves have a hard time against them because of high DV soldiers? Is a Dwarf army broken because Reven lose all the Tough they've paid for? Nope.

 

With all that being said she may very well be undercosted. What would people think if Aysa was 127 points and packed Innate: Firestorm? I don't think Reaper would ever make such a Model, but Firestorm is 75 points too. Wouldn't Aysa cost the same if she had that instead of Undying Host? For that matter why IS Undying Host 75 points? Reaper must have thought it pretty powerful to make it cost that much. Yet they give it Innately to a Model and cost her at 127 points? Shouldn't the cost for an Innate Spell be at least two castings worth? Three castings worth? Right now I think it comes it at one castings worth for Innate Spells (127-75 = 52). I think she's about a 52 point Model without it. I don't think Undying Host is worth taking for 75 points when I can take a Firestorm. You're not even guaranteed to get ONE Model! It's a die roll!

 

I apologize for this post bouncing all over the place, but it's late over here and I really should be sleeping...

 

Without any purchased spells, everytime the grusome familiar gets hurt, she would take a damage. The innate spell will not save her. You can also field a squad with all the points used on her.

Sorry, but that is incorrect. The Caster NEVER takes damage from their GF getting hit. EE clarified how GF works (see below), but this was never the case.

 

Gruesome Familiar

Category: Item

Point Cost: +10 (must purchase Familiar separately)

Bonus: see notes

Notes: This piece of equipment can only be taken by models that have already purchased the Familiar upgrade and that possess the Undead SA. The casting Model “detaches” parts from itself and magically attaches these grizzly bits to its familiar. The familiar uses the Casting Model’s data card, on it's current damage track, for all stats (and gains Undead as well). However, if the familiar is attacked and successfully damaged, the Casting Model must sacrifice a purchased spell of their own choice, that has not been already cast, for each point of damage suffered (Innate Spells are unaffected). These spells are lost but the spell caster suffers no damage. The benefit of a Gruesome Familiar is that the Model may either use its own base or determine Line of Sight and Range from the Gruesome Familiar’s Base. The familiar must be based on a Standard Base in order to benefit from this piece of equipment. The familiar does not gain short nor any other height based SA that affects Line of Sight (it jumps up, flies up for a moment, hops, etc.). Non-Attack Spells cast on the Gruesome Familiar only affect the Gruesome Familiar. Likewise Spells (attack or otherwise) cast on the Gruesome Familiar’s parent Model do not affect the Gruesome Familiar other than if the parent Model dies, the Gruesome Familiar is also removed from play. Gruesome Familiars cannot conduct Actions other than Movement and Loot (including Coup-de-Grace etc.). Familiars may not perform Defensive Strikes/Magic/etc. if attacked. A Model may only have one Gruesome Familiar. If both the Caster and its Gruesome Familiar are in the same Area of Effect spell, and both take damage, then the Caster takes damage as well as loses a spell. Gruesome Familiars automatically pass any discipline checks required to move out of base to base contact with an enemy model.

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Without any purchased spells, everytime the grusome familiar gets hurt, she would take a damage. The innate spell will not save her. You can also field a squad with all the points used on her.

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Without any purchased spells, everytime the grusome familiar gets hurt, she would take a damage. The innate spell will not save her. You can also field a squad with all the points used on her.

NO ! This has been clarified in errata by EE that the mage only looses a spell . The innate spell is not lost and therefore no damage occurs ! :blink: Yes , she is very powerful and I find her effective without even putting on the Grusome Familiar . :blink:

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I'm not going to call her broken. I will say that I dislike the fact that you get +2 friendly modifier for casting Undying Host. I think that would help lessen her nastiness if it was removed.

 

She is at very least she is a bargain model well worth her points. I cringe when I see her across the board, but in my mind it isn't the end of the world, she can be beaten quite easily with the right units, although if you don't happen to have any of these it is an uphill (but not impossible) battle.

 

I've addressed dealing with her in the other thread.

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+2 friendly modifier? I thought that was only when a friendly model was targeted by a non-combat spell. I've definitely not been reading the rules like Undying Host gets you the +2 bonus. Am I wrong? Is there an errata?

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I know we mentioned it on Saturday. Rather than messing with her points, one thing I would like to see.

 

A successful attack on a Gruesome Familiar:

1. Removes a spell from it's caster.

2. If the caster has no spells left, but has an Innate spell, use of the Innate Spell is lost for the remainder of the Turn.

3. If the caster has no spells left and no Innate spells, nothing happens.

 

I don't think this is too unreasonable.

 

 

Hell, I don't even mind the jacked Aysa thing. I just hate that Spectral Minions have a 9 DIS and get Tough checks in Crypt Legion lists <_<

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Without any purchased spells, everytime the grusome familiar gets hurt, she would take a damage. The innate spell will not save her. You can also field a squad with all the points used on her.

 

READ: (emphasis mine)

However, if the familiar is attacked and successfully damaged, the Casting Model must sacrifice a purchased spell of their own choice, that has not been already cast, for each point of damage suffered (Innate Spells are unaffected). These spells are lost but the spell caster suffers no damage.

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+2 friendly modifier? I thought that was only when a friendly model was targeted by a non-combat spell. I've definitely not been reading the rules like Undying Host gets you the +2 bonus. Am I wrong? Is there an errata?

No need for errata.

Undying Host is a Non-Attack spell. The Range is the casting model itself. Certainly the casting model is friendly to itself. Therefore, there is no reason NOT to get the +2. ^_^

 

Any non-attack spells cast on your own troops will get you the +2.

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[quote name='Ravenwolf' date='Sep 18 2006, 11:06 PM' post='341405'

 

With all that being said she may very well be undercosted. What would people think if Aysa was 127 points and packed Innate: Firestorm? I don't think Reaper would ever make such a Model, but Firestorm is 75 points too. Wouldn't Aysa cost the same if she had that instead of Undying Host? For that matter why IS Undying Host 75 points? Reaper must have thought it pretty powerful to make it cost that much. Yet they give it Innately to a Model and cost her at 127 points? Shouldn't the cost for an Innate Spell be at least two castings worth? Three castings worth? Right now I think it comes it at one castings worth for Innate Spells (127-75 = 52). I think she's about a 52 point Model without it. I don't think Undying Host is worth taking for 75 points when I can take a Firestorm. You're not even guaranteed to get ONE Model! It's a die roll!

 

Just my two pennys worth but it seems to me she is over pointed when the only other innate (75 pt), spellcaster im aware of, mummy Kristianna seems to pay around the 150 (my best guess i admit)mark for hers?

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+2 friendly modifier? I thought that was only when a friendly model was targeted by a non-combat spell. I've definitely not been reading the rules like Undying Host gets you the +2 bonus. Am I wrong? Is there an errata?

There is no need for errata. It says it right in the spell description for Undying Host:

"The Casting Model rolls 1d10 and adds its current Casting Power (CP) modified for Magical items or other effects (like the normal bonus for casting a non-attack spell on a friendly model)."

 

Rich

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Actually, Kristianna costs 244 points. However, even if Kristianna did come in at 150 or so, how is Aysa overpointed in comparison when she costs only 127? :huh:

Sorry didnt explain well, what i meant was i would guess Kristianna pays round the 150 mark for her SA Innatespell holy burst. Maybe im wrong but Kristianna stats without it dont seem worth more than 100 pts to me! Aysa on the other hand gets an innate 75pt spell for much less( i agree with Ravenwolf that she prolly gets for 75 as she prolly worth bout 50 without!)Now i dont play crusaders (or necropolis) but i feel this is at least a little unfair!!

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