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Darthiir

Discussion on Aysa

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I think a solution for some of this would be to limit the gruesome familiar to being unable to have innate spells cast through it. Then Aysa would have to come out and play to get the minions close enough to swarm quickly or risk having them trek all the way across the battlefield. It would still retain its nastiness for dropping spells from hidden models but would put a damper on the abuse of innate spells that are never at risk from being lost.

Seems to be the best solution I've heard . If we're having a vote , its got mine. ::P::lol:

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I don't think an innate spell should be treated differently than a normal spell.

 

I think the appropriate solution is that if there is no spell to sacrifice when a GF takes damage, then the "grizzly bits" fall off of the GF and it reverts to being a normal familiar. This lets an Aysa without spells use a GF for Undying Host until the GF takes damage.

 

Rich

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Let the GF cast Innate spells, but give a penalty is there are no spells to be sacrificed in the event of damage to the familier. Therefore, should the GF take damage, but Aysa has no spells to sacrifice that aren't innate, she is forced to take the damage for her familier. That will teach anyone to think twice about abusing a GF. You can play the advantages, but at a price.

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I've got no problem with the Gruesome familiar being destroyed if it takes damage and there is no spell to sacrifice. This is just as easy a fix as OUtcasts.

Exactly! the GF needs something to address this inconsistancy with innate spells and being indistructable. I'd be happy with either one myself, but lets see something ::D: .

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I've got no problem with the Gruesome familiar being destroyed if it takes damage and there is no spell to sacrifice. This is just as easy a fix as OUtcasts.

Exactly! the GF needs something to address this inconsistancy with innate spells and being indistructable. I'd be happy with either one myself, but lets see something ::D: .

 

I don't see the difference between an innate spell and one that's not. If you can cast one thru a GF, you should be able to cast the other.

That being said however, I'll have to look again, but if I remember the necropolis rules for GF correctly, the GF is already defined to have the same stats as the caster and takes damage the same as the caster does. I know I remember reading something where both caster and familiar only take damage from a spell if both are in the spell's area of effect. Otherwise, its only one or the other. From previous discussion, it may not have the caster's damage tracks, only movement, etc. If this is the case, to fix the issue, I would give the GF all of the caster's stats and let it take damage the same as the caster.

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I think limiting innate spells could also be planning for the future to for something like dragon breath or paralyzation from a medusa etc. In this case it may not matter, but when spells reflect actual abilities it's a bit of an issue.

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New question:

 

If you are out of spells and are down to the Innate and your GF takes 3 hits in a round is your innate spell stunned for 3 rounds or just one?

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That being said however, I'll have to look again, but if I remember the necropolis rules for GF correctly, the GF is already defined to have the same stats as the caster and takes damage the same as the caster does. I know I remember reading something where both caster and familiar only take damage from a spell if both are in the spell's area of effect. Otherwise, its only one or the other. From previous discussion, it may not have the caster's damage tracks, only movement, etc. If this is the case, to fix the issue, I would give the GF all of the caster's stats and let it take damage the same as the caster.

 

The Gruesome Familiar does not have stats of it's own. It uses the stats of whatever the current DT of its Caster has for purposes of DV/MD/Mov - the other stats are irrelevant. A Gruesome Familiar does not take damage specifically and does not lose DTs. Instead, when it is the recipient of an attack that would cause a point of damage, the Caster is instead forced to sacrifice a spell.

 

There are several easy fixes which have been discussed to infinity and beyond:

 

1. No Innate Spells cast through the Familiar. I can understand this, but a spell's a spell. I don't like this fix, even if it means Tony can keep dropping Spectral Minions on my 6 all day long. ::P:

 

2. If a Gruesome Familiar is hit, and there are no spells that can be lost, the Casting Model loses the ability to cast their Innate spell for the remainder of the Turn. Personally, I like this fix the best. It does not completely limit the Innate Caster nor the GF, but provides some measure of accountability for running the little pile of maggots and used flesh willy nilly across the board. You essentially sacrifice your Innate Spell for a turn.

 

3. If the Gruesome Familiar is hit, and there are no spells that can be lost, since you cannot lose Innate Spells, the GF is destroyed. Again, this one isn't a horrible fix. No one complains about the GF for other casters, except for those with Innate Spells. Once a Caster is out of spells, the GF is rendered useless anyways, and since it cannot block movement or base to base contact, it's essentially useless from there on out, and why bother keep it on the field. This would again have a big impact solely on the Innate Caster. I think it's rather punative to completely render the GF useless if this happens.

 

 

@Lawgiver - Hard call, although if you go with the Model of if it's hit three times, the Caster would have to lose 3 prepared spells, then yeah, losing the Innate Spell for 3 rounds would make sense. Tracking that in a game could be rather difficult, so I think a more simple solution would be to just eliminate the Innate Spell for the remainder of the current Turn. It might also make the loss of the Innate Spell more palatable for the Necropolis Players who would be impacted by such a ruling. If you forced them to lose the spell for 3 Turns, you would likely never see the GF fielded ever again, and I think that would be a problem too.

 

 

 

I need to double check my Necro book to see if it's legal, but something for GF users to consider. If you have a level 3 Mage with Defensive Magic. Pack a Dispell, and send your GF with a tightly packed troop as a magic shield to protect from AOE spell attacks.

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I need to double check my Necro book to see if it's legal, but something for GF users to consider. If you have a level 3 Mage with Defensive Magic. Pack a Dispell, and send your GF with a tightly packed troop as a magic shield to protect from AOE spell attacks.

If i remember corectly the GF doesn't receive any of the SA of the caster model, just the damage track. So the GF wouldn't have defencive magic, and as it's the GF being targeted not the caster, you couldn't make any defencive magic.

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I need to double check my Necro book to see if it's legal, but something for GF users to consider. If you have a level 3 Mage with Defensive Magic. Pack a Dispell, and send your GF with a tightly packed troop as a magic shield to protect from AOE spell attacks.

If i remember corectly the GF doesn't receive any of the SA of the caster model, just the damage track. So the GF wouldn't have defencive magic, and as it's the GF being targeted not the caster, you couldn't make any defencive magic.

 

Actually, it specifically says in the description it cannot perform Defensive Actions. Just double checked. Oh well, that would have been pretty cool. I'd gladly allow it Defensive Magic as a counter balance to some adjustment for Innate spells.

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I think that Aysa and the Gruesome Familiar are fine as they are. A potentially annoying combination, but, fine as they are given the point cost.

 

Ron

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