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rcrosby

Scrye Shot, Blazer and Multiple Attacks

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Acacia has Helm of the Hawk and is leading 4 Ivy Crown Archers in an indirect volley using Scrye Shot. None of the Models have moved (Acacia to use Scrye Shot, Archers to use Marksman). What is the outcome?

 

1. No volley allowed. Scrye Shot cannot be used when leading an indirect volley.

2. 1.25" AOE (#RA 5) Volley allowed, but both Acacia and the Archers can only contribute #RA 1 to the volley since Scrye Shot can only be used for the "final attack".

3. 1.25" AOE (#RA 9) Volley allowed, but Acacia can only contribute #RA 1 to the volley since she can only use her "final attack" with the Scrye Shot (others get to use all of their attacks.)

4. 2" AOE (#RA 10) Volley allowed, and Acacia and the Archers can contribute #RA 2 to the volley since the volley itself is considered the "final attack" with the Scrye Shot.

 

It would be great to get this officially sorted out before the new Elven Warlord hits the table...

 

Rich

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It would be great to get this officially sorted out before the new Elven Warlord hits the table...

 

Rich

 

Nah. . .what would the fun in that be. . .offical answer pishaw. ::P:

 

 

I would say #2 volley allowed but the leader with scrye shot can only contribute one attack to the volley.

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My money's on four since Aracia has 2 RA's. If she only had one she would not be able to use Marksman and scrye shot.

 

Wait, did I just defend an elf's position :blink:

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My money's on four since Aracia has 2 RA's. If she only had one she would not be able to use Marksman and scrye shot.

Scrye Shot - "Models with Multiple Attacks may only ignore obstructions on their final attack."

 

The distinction is whether the volley itself counts as the "final attack" or if the Multiple Attacks going into the volley are separated for determining the "final attack". It all depends on Reaper's vision of what a volley using Multiple Attacks represents. Is a Model that contributes Multiple Attacks to a volley actually shooting all of their attacks at the same time or are they spread out over time like they are when shooting normally? :wacko:

 

Rich

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Well, you wouldnt be able to scrye shot and volley on the same turn because those are two different attack actions.

 

To be able to do a volley to someplace you cannot see, it requires one person with blazer not scrye shot (even tho technically both are used to shoot at out of LOS targets).

 

Scrye shot allows a single model to shoot at an out of LOS target.

 

Blazer allows a group to volley to an out of LOS target.

 

Those are two different attacks and so would not be able to be done on the same turn.

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Scrye shot allows a single model to shoot at an out of LOS target.

 

Blazer allows a group to volley to an out of LOS target.

 

Those are two different attacks and so would not be able to be done on the same turn.

No, they are not two different attacks. They are two different special abilities that can be used in conjunction with each other.

 

Scrye Shot allows you to ignore LOS to a target point or Model with a Ranged Attack.

 

Blazer allows a model to participate in a Volley and use their Ranged attack(s), to determine LOS for the entire group of Models. The Blazer's Ranged attack is counted as part of the Volley to determine the size of the AOE.

 

Blazer can utilize Scrye Shot to target a point or Model as the centerpoint of a Volley and then contribute it's attack(s) as part of the Volley.

 

A Model participating in a Volley ranged attack cannot split its attacks between multiple targets, e.g. a Model with #RA 3 cannot use one shot in a Volley and then the others on seperate targets. All shots must participate in the Volley or be wasted.

 

Models with Marksmen, that do not move, can contribute both their Ranged attacks to determine the final size of a Volley AOE.

 

So the question really comes down to: For a model with Blazer, Scrye Shot and #RA>1, do they contribute all of their Ranged attacks when determining the size of the AOE of a Volley, or just the one.

 

Based on rcrosby's options, only 3 and 4 would be valid. My gut tells me the answer is 3, based on the fact that Scrye Shot is only used on the final/single Ranged attack. The Blazer/Scrye Shooter only contributes a single Ranged attack to determine the size of the Volley's AOE. The Final Attack only applies to the Model with Scrye Shot.

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Another fly in the ointment:

 

(page 71) Scrye Shot - "The Model sacrifices its Non-Combat Action (such as Movement) to gain a Clear Line of Sight to any target for a single Ranged Attack even if the target would normally be Obstructed or even Blocked."

 

(page 64) "How to Resolve a Ranged Attack"

 

(page 65) "How to Resolve a Volley Ranged Attack"

 

From this, it appears that a "Ranged Attack" is different from a "Volley Ranged Attack". Scrye Shot can only be used for a "single Ranged Attack".

 

Rich

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I would tend towards option 3 where the scrying model only gets a single shot to add to the volley. The volley itself is a single shot/action so the other models would be unaffected since their volleying is based on the blazed shot of the scrying model (eep does that make any sense??).

 

I don't see why option 3 would not work.

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We have been running with option 3 in our friendly games at our FLGS. I have faced the new Elf Warlord and he does bring DOOM, but he is not invincible. Something "official" would be nice. Silverrain is a Master Archer too and the Bowsisters have SA Volley.

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According to the rule book: page 62 "Multiple Attacks And Volley Fire Participation"

 

"A model with multiple attacks that participates in a volley cannot divide its number of attacks between volley and other forms of ranged attacks; all of its attacks are used during the volley attack."

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This is my least favorite part about Warlord. Terrain is paramount in any good skirmish game, whether fantasy or sci-fi, and removing it with these abilities is a drag. It just means when you're fighting the archer army with these abilities that you may as well leave everyone in the open and charge in a beeline to take them out. There is no utilizing cover to manoever, no targeting priorities to force the archers to shoot the nearer more dangerous opponents, etc.

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This is my least favorite part about Warlord. Terrain is paramount in any good skirmish game, whether fantasy or sci-fi, and removing it with these abilities is a drag. It just means when you're fighting the archer army with these abilities that you may as well leave everyone in the open and charge in a beeline to take them out. There is no utilizing cover to manoever, no targeting priorities to force the archers to shoot the nearer more dangerous opponents, etc.

I think that when you have models that can ignore the penelties related to cover it only makes things MORE intresting.

 

Watch a game where orcs dash over rough terrain when the opponent seperates his forces to get around it. Or if it's elves the duck into the heavy forests, while the reven get lost in the thick of it. It can really add alot to the game and changes tactics dramtically. The same exact layout on the board gets played infinant different ways.

 

And the scry shot volley thing isn't a game over ability. I've seen it used a number of times now, and although a good tactic, the elves lost the games I saw it used in. Losts of points in archers to get that power. Earning back the ROI is tough sometimes.

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I've accepted it as part of the game, but myself and the other four people who have played the game in our area find it a bit hokey. I see your point though.

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