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joshuaslater

Upcoming Generic Card Changes?

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Reaper won't hand over their copyrighted and proprietary rubric, nor should they. They'd be giving away the farm, the fuel that drives the game engine. Unfortunately, without it, fans would be guessing at creating generics or specific DHL stats. That leaves it up to Reaper to do it, or it won't get done (at least, not in a way most everyone could agree on). Either way, it's a tall order, with 3000+ models in the DHL line.

 

I'm not asking anyone to reinvent the wheel, here, or suggesting Reaper or the fans should do so. I'm just wondering if there is a plan to update what has already been published. I have them in my core book, and I could have sworn I had 2nd printing. Dang, now I have to check. :unsure:

 

So, as I see it, the term 'generic cards' has two possible meanings. (1) A few pages in a book or easily accessible online, general usage, generic cards. Human troops, humanoids, monster archetypes. (2) WL stats for DHL models with SAs and other applicable stats. To me, that level of specificity defeats the purpose; they're no longer generic, but unique for each model. I'm in camp (1).

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DHL models are legal proxie models. I honestly don't see why they would need their own card, nor do I see a need for generic cards. I'd much rather Reaper spend their time making sure all the existing factions and models are balanced against each other, than devote time on an idea they once had and didn't think worked all that well.

 

If you want to use a DHL model, just find what it best represents in your army of choice, and use it as such. You want to use the Half-orc Shaman? Great, make him a proxie for Ombur. Need to find a use for Alaine? She even looks like Finari, so there's your proxie. There are plenty of opportunities to use the several dozen orcs and ogres in the DHL line for Reven proxies, not to mention you could easily make a Merc unit out of them as well. There is nothing to stop you from using Ogres as Lupine proxies. There are some unique monsters that don't fit into any mold like Hooked Horrors or Cave Worms? There is probably room for those in a Darkspawn army as Soultenders or Burrowing spawns.

 

Name a DHL model you want to use, and I'm confident one of us can come up with a good proxie opportunity or two for the model.

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I didn't mean that DHL model #12345 should have its own card, but more like a generic monster card. Things that exist outside of any factions list. Basically, the same kind of critters you would find in the old D&D Monstrous Manual

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While I do hope that eventually they are able to come out with some generic monster cards. I am not really anxious for them to come out with generic army cards. I would rather they spend their time filling out and finishing up and adding to the existing factions, and if they ever do that, then maybe add more factions. But, I dont think it really needs a build your own generic army card system, cause I do think that is what the Merc army list is for.

 

Like I said initially, I do like the idea that at some point they will be able to go back and create a plethora of generic moster cards though. Not cards that you could change their abilities, but finished cards with final cost. Basically cause, yep I would love to run some forms of monster hunt scenarios. Or Kill the Dragon scenarios. I would want to have a Dragon that even the new datacards would have a tough time dealing with (looking at the Dauron card that was posted in the Warlord update thread would have a field day with the current generic dragon card - and I dont think Dauron will be the toughest thing in the update.).

 

But, I dont want them to even start considering what a good Dragon will look like until after these 07 cards are finalized and released.

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Thanks man, we're on the same page. Thats what I meant as far as generic cards. I don't want generic armies, you can do that easily enough with what's out there now.

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I agree monster cards for models that don't even slightly exist within Warlord's current factions would be icing on the cake.

 

However the massive variety of troops, with available-for-free data cards, and the ability to create "freelance" armies, is the cake :)

 

Meanwhile, if you're talking about DM run "everyone vs the monster" or "everyone vs the DM" games, I suggest you get together with some gaming buddies and just thrash out what you think the monster should be. Assign it an arbitrary points cost and play it out and adjust until you think you have the points right. Then stick a photoshopped and clearly labeled "UNOFFICIAL" card up on Warlordgamer or your own fansite. I'm serious about this- if you want a monster statted, do it, post it, and everyone can have a go at it.

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I would like to be able to put in things like Gnolls, Kobolts, Carrion crawlers, Dragons, ect, ect in some games from time to time just to mix things up. There are a whole slew of monsters and non-human races that are not covered in Warlord. So I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of generic system to help guide GMs in making those. I also think it's a little extra draw for players if they know they can make stats for monster/ non-human races figures they already have no matter who the manufacturer is. Having said the above I would still expect that stats made with a generic system would not be allowed in official Warlord games.

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We'll just have to wait 'til the new cards all come out, won't we? I agree putting up our own monsters is the best fan driven idea.

 

As for the rubric, I was being facetious. ::):

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Excuse me for being a bit confused here. How do you guys play Warlord? Do you have a group of players who each take a unit, and a GM runs them through a dungeon or something? I'm just curious. I've seen similar stuff done at conventions (like Castlebuilder's events) and such, but I don't imagine that to be the norm for the game.

 

Normally, if we want to play a wargame, I put my army down, my opponent puts theirs down, and we go at each other's throats. There might be scenarios like holding a hill or something, but it usually doesn't involve carrion crawlers or rampant gnolls. If we feel like a dungeon crawl, we pull out Descent. If we feel like campaigning, we pull out D&D...

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I think a better goal, instead of generic datacards, is to have so many different models in the Warlord line, that there is always a solid stat line for whatever you want to run.

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That would be great, but I don't think its very cost effective for Reaper. Not compared to just publishing free data cards for which you can use already existing Dark Haven minis. Also, lets not forget about the Legendary encounters pre-paints coming out. It would be useful to have data for them as well.

 

This would be great for campaigns or roleplaying, but I'm envisioning it for more of a scenario based combat. We'll have to start a section on warlordgamer.com. Would that be cool chesme?

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Absolute twaddle. Someone illuminate me as to why Reaper can't/won't come up with a data card for the Snakeman Champion?

 

You've been on these forums long enough to know the rabid fans of the Reptus would snatch that model up in a heartbeat!!

 

I understand Reaper wanting to get the core done first. That's fine if it means the game is playable, relatively balanced, and FUN. I don't even mind waiting; I'm just chillin' until the new cards come out, then I'll print'em and keep playing Warlord.

 

The Reven Players would have eg. the Formorian Giant as an alternative, not alternate Hill Giant. It would lead to so many different options. MORE THAN ANY GAMES COMPANY ON THE PLANET. I'm not talkin' about some generic stat cards anymore. I'm sayin' open the floodgates of DHL and unleash hell on the gaming world. No other company could even come close.

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That would go a long way towards making Warlord one of the top fantasy mini games. Its got that potential now, but that would be incredible. Imagine if 2 players could field armies from the same faction with completely different lists? That would definately make WL stand far above lots of others.

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Absolute twaddle. Someone illuminate me as to why Reaper can't/won't come up with a data card for the Snakeman Champion?

 

I can't illuminate you, but I can take a stab at guessing some of the reasons.

 

Warlord has a very small list of special abilities (compared to other games). I don't think the game could possibly support the hundreds of DHL models without a ton of overlap, or very little difference between what 2 models do. One may have a +1 to their MAV, or RAV, or DV, but that can easily be simulated with equipment.

 

DHL models get discontinued by the dozens every year. Warlord models do not. It would be an unfair advantage if someone has a discountinued model with certain stats, that a new player does not have access to.

 

Warlord products appeal to the wargamer crowd. DHL products appeal to the RPG crowd. Keeping a differrent line of product for each different market works best. If they started including warlord stat cards in DHL minis, most local RPG'ers around here would stop buying DHL, and our store would stop carrying the line. That would be a sad day.

 

Along the same line of thought with marketing, scheduling for the DHL line, and scheduling for Warlord development, are two very different animals.

 

For a miniature game, every model you put out has to be carefully considered for balance issues. With a flood of DHL model stats, some unbalanced models would very easily slip through the cracks due to lack of testing time.

 

There are also cosmetic reasons. Every Overlord model is carefully conceptualized to fit in the Overlord army. Visual appeal and unity are important parts of a wargame. Allowing a mish mash of DHL minis into the game would either break that unity, or put restrictions on the concepts, neither of which are desirable effects.

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