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joshuaslater

Warlord Rebooted.

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Okay, the Rage Chronicles 2007 are up, and the dust from all the changes is beginning to settle. Forward progress. My question now is how Reaper will reboot this game when so many stores have been clearing out their Warlord product?

 

Will Reaper maintain this game as an online, ongoing ruleset, or try to push the game back into stores with Black Lightning members?

 

Will the focus be on fleshing out all the existing factions with enough sculpts for the grunts/adepts or on new individuals and monsters?

 

Will Reaper introduce new armies in an attempt to draw more people in?

 

Would you, the Warlord player/enthusiast, buy a whole new book a year from now that had everything in it? Would having a new book be the way to go to draw in new people?

 

Would a d20 sourcebook for Adon help promote the Warlord game, and sell Warlord models to D&D players using Adon as a backdrop?

 

LET'S FOCUS ON THE POSITIVE. THIS TOPIC IS FOR IDEAS ON GETTING THE GAME REJUVENATED.

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What sucks for me is that I am fighting a losing battle in my store. :down: I have to almost literally fight to get table space from the Warhammer Fantasy, Flames of War, and historical miniatures guys every week. That's just to get a 4'x4' space. Tonight I should have two games going on. That's going to be entertaining.

 

I run into the problem of not having Warlord being good business for the store owner. I can buy 20ish models, and with the new points, easily field a 1,501 point army. You aren't going to have any variety, sure, but it can be done. Then, I don't have to buy anything else. That doesn't make the owners happy because the sales are relatively small.

 

In comes Warhammer Fantasy. Hell, 20 models doesn't even make a unit in most armies, and you need like 8 units to compete. Wow. Plus, GW charges almost as much for a plastic model that is unassembled and unpainted as Reaper does for the pewter equivalent.

 

I have lost players due to these changes. They aren't coming back regardless of how much fun the remaining players are having. That doesn't help the situation either. Now I get to have them bad mouth the game when I am not around. Unfortunately, my schedule dictates that I can only go to the store one night a week, so that is quite often. :down:

 

Unless they just completely kick me out of the store, I'll continue to show up every week to play. Right now that is almost the only place in town to play (that isn't someone's house). A new store just opened up a little while ago, but they sell GW minis only. I haven't quite figured out how to just show up in that store playing a game he doesn't even carry yet. <_<

 

I know that isn't what you wanted to hear Joshua, and I apologize for that. Unfortunately, that is the reality I am forced to play with here. ::(:

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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wildbill, I know from your posts that you are doing all you can to promote the game. Pointing out the obstacles is not the same as a defeatist attitude.

 

In my area, Warlord hasn't caught on, or had a spark of interest that quickly went out. The players that I get together with are informal, and we've just been waiting for all the changes to take place before we see how the game plays and get together.

 

I'm hoping we can generate some ideas to get the game moving.

 

For a skirmish game, yes, you don't have to buy that many models, but the beauty is, you can eventually have ALL the factions, and go freelance. That's one part of the game that is very exciting. I think demoing with freelance forces might be the way to go. You show people a lot more model variety, don't have to worry about Faction Abilities, and they get a taste of everything.

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I think a new, updated book would be helpful - but mainly because a "2nd" edition printing would show retailers and players that the game isn't dead, but has survived to a second edition. Shops always want something "new" on the shelves, they won't re-order a book that has been out for a few years, but isn't a top seller, where as they might order a "new" edition of that older book.

 

A complete hardback reprint may not be cost effective though. One thing that could be considered is a softback "quickstart" edition that trims the rule book down to the bare necessities to get people playing - for example, since the data cards are avialable in the mini packs, and online, there is no need to put the stats for all the factions in the book. Trim out Anne's wonderful painting guide and remove a lot of the full color pages to trim the book down to a $9.95 to $14.95 price point that would bring it down to many gamers impulse buy level.

 

Add stickers or changes to the Dark Heaven Army packs that say "Usable with Warlord" - this helps drive up awareness of the game.

 

 

In order for a game to do well, it doesn't have to be played in stores - it just has to be played. I'm actually dismayed that too many people would rather play at a store these days, rather than join a group that plays at someones home. I've been trying to start up a weekly group to play Warlord, WFB, WH40k, etc in my home, and I can't find anyone that wants to do so - they'd rather go to a store, despite the fact that I have a better setup. I can't stand playing at my local stores simply because I typically can't start playing until 6:30pm, and the stores close at 8 or 9 - I'm used to games starting at 7p and running till 11pm or midnight.

 

For over 10 years I lived in a community that didn't have any local stores to play in - but WFB and 40k still did well because there were at least a half a dozen weekly groups of 6-10 players and a who knows how many other irregular players.

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Well, I personally have been waiting for the new rules to solidify. Now that's done, I have four people very interested in learning. I can schedule BL demos at my store, but they only carry a few DHL minis. All their shelf space is GW. I will certainly do it though, once I pick up the rules better.

 

There is another store nearby that stocks a good amount of DHL/WL and I'm sure he would be happy to have me do demos there- trouble is, it's a tiny store and the tables are used heavily.

 

I think a new edition of the rulebook in any format would be fantastic. It's confusing to introduce a new player to the game, and tell them they have to buy the book, but that 75% of it is outdated, and they have to download (or buy online) the new rules. Putting it all in once place would be a great idea.

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I would definitely be overjoyed if Reaper did a revision of the main rule book. Something that didn't require a 10,000 page errata section to be up to date. And it would also make it much easier to convince new people to jump into the warlord addiction. I would love to be able to say "Yeah, you'll need some models, and you will probably want the book, but it's only like ten bucks, so no worries there." All I would have to add to the end of that would be, "and if you want them reaper is making some prepaints which you can use for your grunts" and the game would be sold.

 

 

 

 

 

Please, please, please, Please, please, please, Please, please, please, Please, please, please, Please, please, please, Please, please, please, PLEASE give us a current book.

 

 

Heck, you could print a new up-to-date version of the rules in the first k-journal or chronicle or what ever the big book is called.

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I <3 positive threads!

 

I hope reaper doesn't give up on the store front, and I highly doubt they will. Their current strategy really seems to include both store and web, and really it's the best way to go. I know I can't wait for the first K-Journal and the new FAs.

To toss in a side not to Wildbill, don't give up, those are some rough times. If the game is fun, and you actively play and introduce people to it, it will keep growing. With the revision we hit a speed bump for sure, but things can only get better from here. You know things are changing for the better when the Reptus are slated to get a FA worth while ;)

 

The one thing that they have left to improve is quantity of sculpts. It's going to drive me nuts if I'm forced to play with 2 sculpt and keep buying 9 or 11 miniatures.

 

I'm indifferent about new armies. When the mercs exploded to include the sisters and the hanged, I have to admit that I felt majorly left out as a Darkspawn, Reptus, and Lupine player. 3 factions that have been here since the start saw no love. Yet the pipeline was wide enough for an entire new faction... Good and Bad, so I'm indifferent.

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I would spend the coin on the new book, after everything's sorted. I would hope that Reaper would introduce more sculpts as well. I've been dropping hints at more Ogres just about everywhere. Here's another one.

 

I know the money will come in from the metal, more than the book. The book however prolly will have to come about, as a whole new release, with different art.

 

For a long time now I've been suggesting the d20 tie-in. There's so much saturation with that right now, but having Adon laid out like the original Greyhawk would be soooo nice. It might convince me to play D&D again. A nice fantasy backdrop that isn't so out there, but usable for most any campaign. I think it might draw some RPG people to tabletop knowing they can fight out battles there, and with the prepaints, that's another avenue. Buy a prepaint army at a deal like the box sets. Fight it out. If you don't dig tabletop you have the whole Warlord range and DHL to choose from for RPG minis. Let one hand wash the other, so to speak.

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A new book is a good idea. But I have one question. What do you tell to all of the stores that get stuck with books that aren't relevant any more? Due to the changes our store is stuck with 5 faction books they can't sell. Well, they could but they won't. They even went as far as buying back a guy's overlord book(they said it was wrong for Reaper to release these in Dec. and then make them useless 4 months later). It is hard to get a retailer involved in a game if they think they are going to get stuck with a bunch of stuff they can't sell. If you want to win over FLGS the game can't make major changes without some advanced notification. (not all stores check this forum).

 

If you want Warlord to take off Reaper has to leave the core rules as they are (or as they will be printed in the new book) for at least a couple of years. That means no new SA's, no getting rid of SA's, no changes in data cards, and no changes to the RAGE system. By all means get out the new FA's sorted out. New models for factions or new campaign rules are fine. Even minor errata isn't that big of a deal. But these major changes have to stop.

 

Speaking for myself and most of the players here we like the new changes we think the game moved in the right direction. But we also want the sweeping changes to stop for a while.

 

I honestly believe Warlord will catch on if it doesn't have any major changes for a couple of years. If a person knows what they are buying is all they will need to play the game more people will start playing. Not everyone wants to (or is able to) check the internet on a regular basis to ensure they have all of the information they need to play the game.

 

Those are my thoughts. I'll shut-up now.

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The stores being stuck with a few faction books can be rectified; they need only send them back. I'm sure Reaper can negotiate with store owners who feel they've been wronged. When Target collapsed leaving stores with TONS of Chronopia and Warzone models, that was a disaster for the stores, the intellectual properties, and ultimately left the gamers (like myself) to continue on without support.

 

Reaper is NOT in a situation that dire. All of the Warlord models are usable. That's where the real money comes from, the metal, not faction books.

 

If sales were through the roof and players were buying the old edition like hotcakes, store owners would still be stocking it even with the changes. I don't think that these changes will kill a game that hasn't yet really hit its stride. A finalized, new book, one shot deal, would go a long way to sorting this out.

 

Sweeping rules changes have hurt players feelings, and store owners may be confused by them, so I agree, that's gotta stop. I'm operating under the premise that these will be the final version of the game and these factions.

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First of all, there are many reasons why Reaper WL remains static. There have been many posts in the past for that issue and Reaper finally responds to the player's request. This brings me hope that this game will revive. The new changes are still waiting to be tested by the community. It should not take that long since the basic mechanics remain the same. Once settled, it should be repackaged and relaunched again hopefully with good marketing this time.

 

My suggestion for a new launch will include (ie my wish list):

1. New starter set.

2. Second edition rulebook

3. Worldwide campaign

4. Special paint sets for beginners

5. Free army builder program, if possible

6. Online battlereports and corresponding photos

7. Accessories eg. counters, scenary, better quality and colorful data cards, etc.

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A new book is a good idea. But I have one question. What do you tell to all of the stores that get stuck with books that aren't relevant any more? Due to the changes our store is stuck with 5 faction books they can't sell. Well, they could but they won't. They even went as far as buying back a guy's overlord book(they said it was wrong for Reaper to release these in Dec. and then make them useless 4 months later). It is hard to get a retailer involved in a game if they think they are going to get stuck with a bunch of stuff they can't sell. If you want to win over FLGS the game can't make major changes without some advanced notification. (not all stores check this forum).

Considering that I see stores that still have old editions of 40k and WFB on the shelves right alongside the new stuff and at their original prices, this is going to vary from store to store. I'm really surprised that a store would have done that for the Overlords book - I wonder if they would do the same for a GW product, because GW does it all the time.

 

If you want Warlord to take off Reaper has to leave the core rules as they are (or as they will be printed in the new book) for at least a couple of years. That means no new SA's, no getting rid of SA's, no changes in data cards, and no changes to the RAGE system. By all means get out the new FA's sorted out. New models for factions or new campaign rules are fine. Even minor errata isn't that big of a deal. But these major changes have to stop.

I partially agree here. But a game that doesn't change at all is perceived as stagnant, no matter how good it is. So while I agree with your comment that the core rules need to stabilize, and the data cards shouldn't go through any major adjustments for awhile, I disagree with you on the SA issue. Don't change or delete existing SAs without a good reason for awhile, yes, but don't let that stop new SAs.

 

I kind of perceive the SAs as the RAGE equivilent of d20s Feats - if carefully considered, adding a new SA to the game won't unbalance things, and can be perceived as growth.

 

Speaking for myself and most of the players here we like the new changes we think the game moved in the right direction. But we also want the sweeping changes to stop for a while.

Overall, while they seem sweeping, the bulk of the changes have been to the SAs and the Datacards. The bulk of the rule book is still applicable, and as I've been looking at it, the changes aren't really that fundamental of a change beyond the datacards. They certainly aren't as sweeping a change that GW has done with the Magic system in every edition of WFB.

 

But I do agree - the game does need some perceived stabilization among the market place.

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It seems stability is at the core of the discussion. I anticipated more participation from forum members. Perhaps the playtesters are burnt out after so much work, and are still hashing out the final details. Maybe the rest of the gang is waiting to kick the tires first.

 

Eight pages and a hundred some posts on the efficacy of the new unit packs, and nary a word on promoting the game. Hm.

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Well with Reaper's trade back policy I can't see why stores would really sweat the risk of carrying Warlord items. I agree that they need a second edition book but printing one right now would be silly since we are still solidifying the stats, rules, SAs, and FA's. Once these are done a new rulebook is vital. The first section (painting and fluff) is still perfectly applicable so no need for any extra work to go into that. The rules are for the most part the same with just a few clarifications and alterations due to support caps and some SAs. The final part (the data cards) are what need the most revision and what seems to be driving the players a bit nuts (at least in my area) and keeping them from picking up the current book. What I'm planning on doing this time, like I did with the 1.2 cards, is print up the finalized cards for the FLGS to attach to the book. Yes I know that they are available for free online but sometimes its those little things that give it that extra push to get it to the customer.

 

 

 

Most of all play, play, play. I get lots of questions when we're playing and have sucked in people to give it a try that way. Try and plan demos in advance and post them or have a regular 'demo' night. Usually this is just getting together to play with the understanding that there is a good chance that you won't be the person that finishes playing your army ::P: . That way you can point to the flyer (we need a new Warlord/CAV demo poster please) and let the people who are asking but don't have time to try it out right then due to work, someone wating in the car, etc and tell them that this is when you'll be demoing next.

 

 

One of the stores I demo in only has a few Reaper minis on the wall but will order anything that you want. Show the store owner that this is generating sales/interest and they will usually at least try and get you some space to play in.

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At our FLGS we've been demoing Warlord to visitors ever since the closed-beta became open-beta. People who have seen the "old" game played come over and look in on our games and give good feedback about the changes.

 

I think it might be a good idea to encourage BL team members to demo people again even if they've been demod in the past. After all, THIS is a NEW game!

 

BTW speaking of interest in the game, we have a mother and her three sons who are at our game store every sunday to play fantasy miniature games. All four love to paint and have been given their first demo of Warlord. Last sunday when it got time to leave, one of the boys told us he'd see us next week, at which point his mother had to remind him that next week was his birthday party.

 

"Awwwwww", says the boy, sadly.

 

Seriously, I betcha Steve and I could've shown up at his party with a few 500 point lsits and our Hirstarts dungeon and been even more funner than a clown or a pony. :lol:

 

If those of us who play Warlord just keep at it and get one new player each.. then the game will thrive.

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