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moloche

Tens always hit...

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Okay I know that a ten always hits but some of the local players have argued that a one should always miss. I can find nothing in the rules to support this. Does this rule in any fashion exist in Warlords?

 

Thanks

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From page 52 of the Rule Book: "However, a natural, unmodified 1 has no other effect and is not considered an automatic failure."

 

I, for one, am happy about this rule since my dices have a tendancy to roll this number to often!

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Now granted, there are going to be very few situations where rolling a 1 will mean success, but it is not automatic failure.

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I look at it as, if your model is so nasty that it hits with a 1, you probably paid enough for it that a 10% miss chance is pretty lame.

 

Most of us are used to a 1 being an automatic failure from games involving d20's. That's only a 5% chance of automatic failure, which isn't too bad. Move over to the d10, and the chance doubles... that starts to become fairly significant. Do you really want your Hydra missing 10% of the goblins it tries to squish? I know I don't.

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The fact that ones don't mean a miss is both good and bad. Heres an example.

 

Pain mage casts Scare on Target model

Rauthros and 3 Incubi all land around shaken model,

Now Rauthros cannot miss (most things)

MAV 9 + 3 (support) + 2 (Target is shaken) + 1 (minimum that can be rolled) = 15

 

That means that autohits on anything with a DV of 15 or less. (which is most things except for a few warlords and special cases)

Tacticly this is a brilliant move, less good for the opponent.

 

It all comes down to the level of ability of the players in your group.

 

another interesting case is the Bull orc list. This is soooo evil...

The warlord (i forget his name) has the reven only spell (+3 Mav) cast on him And equiped with the Bonesplitter .

Have him bonzai charge (if you can't then a normal charge will do) in, "Frenzy" and "Enrage" so that he has 8 attacks @ Mav 12 and everything dies (even the Hydra) and if you pulled the Bonzai off they cant attack back.

 

In some cases its a bad thing in others having 1 as an auto fail could balance some things. My gaming group tried a house rule that 1's always fail but abandoned it pretty quickly.

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And if the Hydra uses it's first strike , its against the unmodified DV because the model has yet to enrage . It all comes down to when you declare attacks . Auto-hits have been in the game since conception . :huh:

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The fact that ones don't mean a miss is both good and bad. Heres an example.

 

Pain mage casts Scare on Target model

Rauthros and 3 Incubi all land around shaken model,

Now Rauthros cannot miss (most things)

MAV 9 + 3 (support) + 2 (Target is shaken) + 1 (minimum that can be rolled) = 15

 

That means that autohits on anything with a DV of 15 or less. (which is most things except for a few warlords and special cases)

Tacticly this is a brilliant move, less good for the opponent.

 

It all comes down to the level of ability of the players in your group.

 

another interesting case is the Bull orc list. This is soooo evil...

The warlord (i forget his name) has the reven only spell (+3 Mav) cast on him And equiped with the Bonesplitter .

Have him bonzai charge (if you can't then a normal charge will do) in, "Frenzy" and "Enrage" so that he has 8 attacks @ Mav 12 and everything dies (even the Hydra) and if you pulled the Bonzai off they cant attack back.

 

In some cases its a bad thing in others having 1 as an auto fail could balance some things. My gaming group tried a house rule that 1's always fail but abandoned it pretty quickly.

 

Think of how miserable it'd feel to expend so many points, and that number of actions, on a brilliant plan -- only to roll some 1's and have the whole thing be entirely lack luster. In most cases, you don't get auto hits during regular battle. You get your odd goblins vs Big Nasty Model situations, and usually in a game there's one or two cases of a fresh model facing a model on its last track, and sometimes you get auto hit there. But usually if you're getting an auto hit, it means you've Scared them, Blessed yourself, brought your highest MAV models, and have done all you can to get that coveted situation. You've invested alot and you've basically earned the right to slaughter your opponents models.

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another interesting case is the Bull orc list. This is soooo evil...

The warlord (i forget his name) has the reven only spell (+3 Mav) cast on him And equiped with the Bonesplitter .

Have him bonzai charge (if you can't then a normal charge will do) in, "Frenzy" and "Enrage" so that he has 8 attacks @ Mav 12 and everything dies (even the Hydra) and if you pulled the Bonzai off they cant attack back.

 

I've never heard of a 'Bonzai' charge, what does it refer to.

 

In your example above You lose Varaug when the Hydra gets its defensive strikes as far as I can tell, Vaurag with Bonesplitter and a Cleric to boost him up isn't far off the Hydra's points cost. Hydra avoids using First Strike, Frenzies, and downs Varaug who has DV 1 due to Enrage. In your example Varaug would have 8 attacks at MAV 8 (your MAV drops when you use Frenzy), against DV 13 on the Hydra, meaning you have a 60% chance of hitting the Hydra with each attack, meaning you are not likely to hit with all 8 attacks and are thus very unlikely to kill the Hydra. You want to throw away your 200 point Warlord? Bring it on.

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The math on Varaug in Bingas' post should be as follows: Varaug is MAV 7. Bonesplitter is +2 MAV, Aspect of the Hunter (the Reven-specific clerical spell mentioned) is +3 MAV, and Varaug can Enrage to sacrifice 8 points of DV for +4 MAV. This equals MAV 16. Fenzy for 4 attack reduces it to MAV 12, which will auto-hit when combined with the Bonesplitter's ability to turn high-DV targets into DV 13. It also still leaves Varaug with a DV of 5, not 1. The Hydra is still auto-hitting in return, but that's not quite the point.

 

However, I would disagree with Russ's statement regarding what occurs when; for the Hydra to use First Strike, a model must declare its attacks against it. If I charge the Hydra with a model but do not attack, it provokes no First Strike. This would mean that the Hydra could make its First Strike against Varaug before the 8 attacks but after the Enrage has been declared (since that must be declared before attacking), so it would be striking against DV 5 with a MAV 8 (assuming it Frenzies to gain the 6 attacks it needs to kill Varaug outright), which is still an auto-hit. Varaug's MAV is unchanged by the First Strike, but the DV is reduced by 1, which is fairly irrelevant, as the Hydra will auto-hit anyway. Both models put each other down Tough, with Varaug also gaining a Poison Token that may kill him at the end of the round.

 

The points:

The Hydra = 312.

Varaug + Bonesplitter + Ombur + Aspect of the Hunter + Holy Symbol (to increase CP to 7 for the spell - which still equals a 20% chance to fail the spell) = 306.

 

I call that a push.

 

EDIT: Bonzai was one of the stunts from the core rulebook. Those are no longer used. See this thread, posts #1 and #4.

 

~v

Edited by Shakandara

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The math on Varaug in Bingas' post should be as follows: Varaug is MAV 7. Bonesplitter is +2 MAV, Aspect of the Hunter (the Reven-specific clerical spell mentioned) is +3 MAV, and Varaug can Enrage to sacrifice 8 points of DV for +4 MAV. This equals MAV 16. Fenzy for 4 attack reduces it to MAV 12, which will auto-hit when combined with the Bonesplitter's ability to turn high-DV targets into DV 13. It also still leaves Varaug with a DV of 5, not 1. The Hydra is still auto-hitting in return, but that's not quite the point.

 

I must have forgot to add the Enraged, my apologies.

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However, I would disagree with Russ's statement regarding what occurs when; for the Hydra to use First Strike, a model must declare its attacks against it. If I charge the Hydra with a model but do not attack, it provokes no First Strike. This would mean that the Hydra could make its First Strike against Varaug before the 8 attacks but after the Enrage has been declared (since that must be declared before attacking), so it would be striking against DV 5 with a MAV 8 (assuming it Frenzies to gain the 6 attacks it needs to kill Varaug outright), which is still an auto-hit. Varaug's MAV is unchanged by the First Strike, but the DV is reduced by 1, which is fairly irrelevant, as the Hydra will auto-hit anyway. Both models put each other down Tough, with Varaug also gaining a Poison Token that may kill him at the end of the round.

I keep forgetting the you can declare a charge and not actually attack something , as an attempt to block . Had it done to me by our Reptus player , declares a charge and then uses "Aura of the Jade Thorns" to increase the blocker's DV and preventing the first strike . Sorry , my bad . :down:

 

Oh and BTW , the name's Ross not Russ . Why does eveybody keep calling me Russ ? :rolleyes: Sheeesh ! :upside:

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Sorry, Ross. Must be your accent when you type... :blink::blink:

 

The charge and not attack is certainly a valid tactic for preventing First Strike attacks, tho using Aura of Jade Thorns really isn't much of a help, since it only grants the +2 DV against Defensive Strikes that activation, and if you aren't attacking...

 

~v

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Sorry, Ross. Must be your accent when you type... :blink::blink:

 

The charge and not attack is certainly a valid tactic for preventing First Strike attacks, tho using Aura of Jade Thorns really isn't much of a help, since it only grants the +2 DV against Defensive Strikes that activation, and if you aren't attacking...

 

~v

 

Yeah, all the Reptus gets is his defensive re-roll when you attack :)

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