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rgtriplec

Frenzy

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It used to be that the only soldiers with a Mav5 or less had frenzy, they were the Dwarf Berserkers and Goatman Daemons. Now there are I think 6 new ones with Rage2008.

 

Is Frenzy wasted on these models? I know my Berserkers are generally never dominating a fight enough to Frenzy and lower their Mav. I understand a model with a Mav of 6, 8 or 10 frenzying because they can still hit 50% or better. But for a Mav 5 to frenzy and remain at 50% the enemy has to be a dv8, and do you honestly need to frenzy to kill a model that probably has 2 or three tracks?

 

I know frenzy can be used to attack a model you could only normally hit with a 10 giving you more chances at 10. I'm sure the Goblin Line Smasher will do this often. But those are rare situations.

 

Do you frenzy with low Mav models and when? I guess I'm too conservative, but a Dwarf Berserker cost 70 points and I'm not lowering his Mav to the point he's hitting at 30 or 40%. He needs to wound something every round.

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I rarely use Frenzy with the Berserkers. I usually utilize their First Strike capability instead. If they are on their last track, and need like a 9+ to hit, then I'll probably Frenzy just to use lots of dice. But, I'm like you. Not normally. ^_^

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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I rarely use Frenzy with the Berserkers. I usually utilize their First Strike capability instead. If they are on their last track, and need like a 9+ to hit, then I'll probably Frenzy just to use lots of dice. But, I'm like you. Not normally. ^_^

 

Wild Bill :blues:

 

I guess with bonuses it could be effective on lower Mavs. I'm going to start playing with Berserkers a little more and see how effective it is. I know on big models it can be brutal.

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There are a few situations where I use it:

 

Support allows the models to increase their MAV pretty dramatically. If I can get an extra model or two into combat I'll make use of Frenzy. I think this is the biggest reason it's on those other models, that MAV 5 can turn into MAV 11

 

There are times where one attack is guarenteed to finish off a model or two, so I'll frenzy just to get the two chances instead of one, albiet at a lower chance at hitting.

 

Then like you said, when you need 10s you frenzy out and roll the dice.

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I have a bunch of models with Frenzy so I end up at least looking at it a lot. If I get some bonuses like from buddies or Totem, I'll Frenzy for the extra dice, bring the MAV down to what is printed on the card. It's just fun to roll more dice. I rarely let my target number get higher than 7.

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With support bonuses it helps so that instead of maybe doing 1-2 points of damage pre frenzy, you have just as bad odds, but might do 4-5 points of damage. Instead of 1 attack at MAV 4, 2 attacks at MAV 3, now add in a couple support bonuses, from 3 friends doing the same thing. With an individual model, it's not so helpful, unless you're already in a need a 10 to hit situation, no matter what.

 

Models starting at #MA 1, MAV 4.

 

4 attacks at MAV 7

8 attacks at MAV 6

 

That one point less MAV isn't really likely to hurt you. But those 4 extra attacks will likely hurt them.

 

Let's say you're attacking a DV 13 opponent.

 

4 attacks at MAV 7.

Needs a 6 or better. 50% chance to hit. So you get 2 hits.

8 attacks at MAV 6.

Needs a 7 or better. 40% chance to hit. So you get 3.2 hits.

Edited by Qwyksilver

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If you want to get technical about it you can sit down and work out a little chart for each Frenzy model that can essentially tell you when to frenzy of not (at least based upon the odds of you hitting) against various DV values. I've contemplated doing this for a few models, but truthfullY i've never been bothered, I think it might take some fun out of the game.

 

Essentially just take the models minimum and maximum # of attacks and all those in between along with the corresponding MAV and calculate against every possible DV (Like Qwyk did). Might sound like a lot of work but I imagine a spreadsheet would make quick work of it. The problem starts when your MAV drops as you take wounds, then you either have to have another scale, or you have to adjust the defenders DV to match your drop in MAV.

 

And of course everything gets even more complicated when you bring into play support bonus'...reminds me why I never undertook this project!

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If you want to get technical about it you can sit down and work out a little chart for each Frenzy model that can essentially tell you when to frenzy of not (at least based upon the odds of you hitting) against various DV values. I've contemplated doing this for a few models, but truthfullY i've never been bothered, I think it might take some fun out of the game.

 

The day someone pulls out a printed spreadsheet detailing this information is the day I will tell them to go away and to never come back. It DOES take some fun out of the game.

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If you want to get technical about it you can sit down and work out a little chart for each Frenzy model that can essentially tell you when to frenzy of not (at least based upon the odds of you hitting) against various DV values. I've contemplated doing this for a few models, but truthfullY i've never been bothered, I think it might take some fun out of the game.

 

The day someone pulls out a printed spreadsheet detailing this information is the day I will tell them to go away and to never come back. It DOES take some fun out of the game.

 

One of the guys from my college D&D group is such a person. He actually did a huge statisitical analysis and bothered to send us not only the results, but the math over what's the best number of dice to use in what situation while playing RISK as a defender or attacker, because we were chatting about RISK once when the DM was on a bathroom break.

 

We just roll our eyes at him when he does this and ignore him.

Edited by Qwyksilver

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Frenzying to add one extra attack, with a mob maximizing support, is almost always going to give you a slight statistical advantage over everyone doing their normal attacks. But of course, we all know the dice never follow averages during a game. They save those averaging rolls for when they bounce around in the dice bag or box en route to the gaming location.

 

If you are attacking something you need a 10 no matter what, maximize the Frenzy.

If you are attacking something that will be an autohit, maximize the Frenzy.

 

Otherwise, it usually better to just attack as normal.

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::): Believe me, even if I was to look at the numbers and work out a spreadsheet, I wouldn't be bringing said sheet to any game and pulling it out. That isn't the kind of person I am, I'm not out to win by any means. My notion of looking at this sort of thing was more out of curiosity to see just how much of a difference it can make, and given that Frenzy has existed in the game for more than a year and I haven't worked anything out I think it is safe to say I probably never will.

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We all know you have the permutations typed in like 1 point pale grey font on your data card sheets so you can check it in the middle of a battle by claiming to "double check your MAV at that DT" ::P:

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We all know you have the permutations typed in like 1 point pale grey font on your data card sheets so you can check it in the middle of a battle by claiming to "double check your MAV at that DT" ::P:

 

:lol:

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