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#46 GreyHorde

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 06:43 PM

I agree, Army 1 looks pretty solid, at least to my untrained eye. Good tips in there, too; you came up with some things I simply hadn't considered. The 998 point one-two punch might come in handy for the later games, too.

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#47 wildbill

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 08:04 PM

I'd imagine that it's just about time for Wildbill to hop on and show you a list with loads of Berserkers though, so if the rock solid defense approach isn't your thing, you'll see another approach soon!


:lol:

To be honest, I have not made a 500 point list...I don't think ever! :unsure: We just don't play anything that small here, even in demo mode. I whip out the whole enchilada and let them see it at its full 1,000 point glory.

Here's a 1,000 point list for your gaming pleasure. :devil:

Logan Battlefury + Mithril Armor
Ivar Silverfist
4 Berserkers
3 Warriors
3 Mancathers
Musician
Standard

Gargram Heavyhand
Durgam Deepmug + Magic Weapon
4 Piercers
4 Swiftaxes
Musician

Griffon

Luck Stone

Totals: 998 Points, 23 Models, 3 Troops, 3 Init Cards, 0 Tacticians, 0 Spies

I think you can have some fun with this army. :devil:

Wild Bill :blues:

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#48 GreyHorde

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 09:55 AM

Thanks, WB, that looks like a lot of straightforward "hit 'em hard & fast" types. I like it; certainly looks like a good list. I'm not sure how to effectively use such a variety of models between berserkers, mancatchers and swiftaxes, but it would be fun to try.

I played a 1501 game once in 1st edition, but that was a long time ago and so much has changed since then. I'm sure we'll get back up there, soon, but we will begin with limited time and area to play. 500 points to start so we can quickly get up to speed, then take the next step as time and other factors allow.

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#49 wildbill

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 01:57 PM

Thanks, WB, that looks like a lot of straightforward "hit 'em hard & fast" types. I like it; certainly looks like a good list. I'm not sure how to effectively use such a variety of models between berserkers, mancatchers and swiftaxes, but it would be fun to try.


I realized I accidentally goofed when I typed in the army list. I meant to put Durgam with Logan. Logan can have 2 elites, so it is legal to do so. I've played this once before in the configuration as I wrote it, and determined that Durgam was a better bodyguard for Logan that where he is in the Piercer/Swiftaxe troop. :blush:

There is one additional change you can make, based upon your own personal playstyle. jdripley would probably agree with this: for the exact same 18 point cost, you can change out the Mancatchers for Halberdiers. They provide Reach, which can be key for Support bonuses. I don't normally aim for Support (my choice) and if I can get it, huzzah! If not, I don't care. I'll kill you anyways. :devil: I use the Mancatchers for Disable first and Provoke second. ^_^

But, as a general idea of how to play the army, I think it should be fairly straightforward. Logan's troop is your powerhouse. Logan and your Berserkers are there to be mega-beat sticks, but they need the Provokers to help keep them alive. Durgam is Logan's bodyguard. Period. Where Logan goes, Durgam blindly follows. With 4 attacks at a 5 and DV 12, Durgam will stick around a long time, plus you have Ivar to help keep him alive. Ivar's sole purpose is to heal Logan and Durgam. If they are healthy, then you can maybe cast a group heal or heal the Griffon, but that is a situational thing and ultimately your call.

The Piercers are obvious: use them on soft juicy targets. Forget shooting the big nasty elites, leaders and solos. Hit the soldiers. That is where you can do your most damage. The first turn you may have to move and shoot, but after that do your best to Focus and then shoot. RAV 5 + Pierce should give you lots of dead models! :devil: Gargram and the Swiftaxes are there to go harass either a small solo or a small troop. You can try and take them into contact with something like a Sokar's Avatar or a Grave Horror, but expect lots of death in retribution. And you better not miss, or all 5 models will die!! :wacko:

The Griffon is interesting, because it can be used to either go scare your opponent and tie up his resources while the rest of your army beats down everything else. It can go after softer targets, kind of like the Piercers. Or you can keep it near one of the two melee troops (Gargam/Swiftaxes or Logan's troop) and assist that way. That is up to you and your play style. But, trust me, watch out for Winglock. It sucks. :down:

Anyways, hopefully this gives you a little more insight into what I was thinking about with this army. ::):

Wild Bill :blues:

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#50 Gus Landt

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 02:20 PM

Provoke models in Logan's troop can be sick, as they remove the negative of his Warlord Special Ability. :devil:
“There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way” - C.S. Lewis "I'm not sure God wants us to be happy. I think he wants us to love, and be loved. But we are like children, thinking our toys will make us happy and the whole world is our nursery. Something must drive us out of that nursery and into the lives of others, and that something is suffering." - C.S. Lewis

#51 wildbill

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 02:23 PM

Provoke models in Logan's troop can be sick, as they remove the negative of his Warlord Special Ability. :devil:


Oh yeah. I forgot that juicy little tidbit. Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! Dwarves RULE! :devil:

:lol:

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#52 jdripley

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 02:50 PM

"How to kill just about anything with 200 points"

Dwarves - 205 points

Troop 1
Tohil Steadyhand
Margara Firetongue
Halberdier x 2
Forgemaiden x 4

Well... close to 200 points, at any rate.

I picked 200 points because many of the nastiest models sit right around 200 points. Your hill giants, stone spirits, angels, demons, dragons...

the troop is designed to be a kill team that floats right behind your main line. When their big nasty whatever jumps you, you swiftly engage your kill team and try to knock it out fast before it can do TOO much damage. The cost is 4 Forgemaidens. Small beans compared to the threat of a 200 point model!

First you charge your Forgemaidens in. Dis 6 ought to see two of them make it in the case of a fearsome model, or whatever. Halberdiers follow up behind whichever Forgemaidens actually make it in. A full health Forgemaiden will strike twice at MAV 8 (3 + 4 Martyr +1 Support) and your two Halberdiers will strike once each at MAV 6. Assuming two Forgemaidens, that's 4 attacks at 8 and 2 at 6. Let's figure the model has DR/2, so you've done 3 or 4 damage. The odds go up dramatically when the model doesn't have Fearsome, DR, or both. You could potentially see 8 attacks at 8 and 2 at 6, which makes things look good for 5 damage or so. Next you've got Tohil and Margara. Margara goes next as she has the best offensive stat between the two. Mind Blast for 2 more damage. Tohil can now go if the bad guy is still up, and hope to Pierce off of its lowered DV for up to 2 more damage.

Best of all, if your opponent doesn't field a big nasty model, Margara has some nice AOE's and her most potent single target spells will crush moderately strong leaders and elites. Tohil can always do his thing, and Martyrs aren't too expensive even if all you do is rush them towards 40 point soldiers and have them kasplode against them. So it's not like your fancy Super killers are useless weight if you don't face a big nasty thing.

And if all goes well, even after the big nasty bad guy you've still got Tohil, Margara with plenty of SP, and 2 Halberdiers to mix it up.
Jim Ripley

#53 Stubbdog

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 03:15 PM

JD,

Curious... Where are you getting +4 for Martyr? Its only +2.

Now that is not to say that you couldn't get to +8 with a little help from things like bless spells and battle totems, but by itself, Martyr only gives +2.

#54 Shakandara

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 03:18 PM

A full health Forgemaiden will strike twice at MAV 8 (3 + 4 Martyr +1 Support) and your two Halberdiers will strike once each at MAV 6.

Huh? Martyr is a flat +2 MAV, not +2 per DT.

EDIT: And Jason beat me to the punch.

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Edited by Shakandara, 30 October 2009 - 03:18 PM.

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#55 Vil-hatarn

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 03:46 PM

Though given the relatively low number of models with both DR/2 and Fearsome, it sounds like the tactic would still work in most cases. It might not quite take down the toughest models, but it'll at least cripple them.
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#56 Shakandara

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 03:58 PM

Actually, every single one of the five 200+ point models from the core rules have Fearsome. Four of the five are also DV 13 on first track, which means that the hit % at MAV 6 goes down to 40%. Three of the five models are Flyers, meaning you will be less likely to dictate terms of engagement to them (unless you use Margara to try to ground the model instead).

If we include the models that are 175+ points, twelve of the thirteen are Fearsome. Seven of them are DV 13 on the first track; of the six that are not, half of them have DR/2. Seven of the thirteen are also either Flyers or Burrowers.

I'm not saying that little troop won't lay down a hurt, but the big models are no slouches either.

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#57 Vil-hatarn

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 04:51 PM

Huh...didn't realize fearsome was quite that prevalent. May have to start taking that into greater account in army composition...
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#58 Shakandara

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 09:07 PM

Overall, there are only 39 models from the core factions that have Fearsome, but the distribution is heavily skewed towards the large, nasty ones (go figure).

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#59 jdripley

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 12:17 PM

JD,

Curious... Where are you getting +4 for Martyr? Its only +2.

Now that is not to say that you couldn't get to +8 with a little help from things like bless spells and battle totems, but by itself, Martyr only gives +2.

You know the funny thing was that as I was forming the idea and checking the datacards and SA's and so forth I was saying to myself "man, I didn't realize Martyr was that nasty, giving you +2 MAV for each remaining DT. I'll have to put some more thought into whether or not to pick up some Forgemaidens, because that's just gross!"

The lack of that last +2 really does hurt the strategy quite a bit, doesn't it?

Perhaps a reasonable adjustment would be to then begin with Margara lighting off a Mind Blast. If she gets it - which is chancy because all of those expensive models have really high MD and her CP 7 only goes so far. Another spell option could be Fiery Hammer. 1 less damage, but you still get Stunned (no defensive strikes!) and Burning, which more often than not means no focus action from the big bad guy. Heck you could Fiery Hammer the big guy and run your soldiers away from it. Force it to either spend one action charging in and take a damage, or spend their action stopping, dropping, and rolling. That'd at least keep it off of you for a turn. Restore Tome casters notwithstanding.

But again, the CP 7 makes it chancy. Maybe a Luck Stone is in order!
Jim Ripley

#60 jdripley

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:03 PM

750 Dwarf list of Doom!

Troop 1
Logrim Battlefury
Ivar Silverfist
Kara Foehunter
Shieldmaiden x 2
Warrior x 4
Halberdier x 2
Troop 2
Gargram Heavyhand
Swiftaxe x 3
Piercer x 2
Miner
Troop 3
Snorri Oathbreaker
=750
3 troops, 2 spies, 19 models

19 models in a 750 Dwarf list is... well I think it's pretty impressive!
Troop 1 is a heavyweight contender. Logrim up the middle with a pair of Maidens flanking, backed by Halberdiers and with Ivar to patch up their hurt? Yes please. The Maidens' extra DT means Ivar has that much more opportunity to heal. This troop rocks upwards of MAV 8 on the charge (9 against Reven!) against selected targets. Whizam!

Gargram's troop is all about cleaning up support. Rush Attack and Piercers make it happen from way out, and the Miner can get in there unhindered unless a caster blows SP on bringing one model to the surface. I almost hope they do.

Kara and Snorri may not be the most popular choices, but I like them. Nothing like a 2-in-1 Piercer with bells and whistles! 1/5 of this list is ranged which is somewhat of an anomaly for me, but I don't think it's out of order or anything. Piercers don't disappoint.
Jim Ripley




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