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#46 Flamboyant_Cuttlefish

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 09:41 AM

The Pain Cage Doctrine is one of the main reasons I'm looking into Darkspawn. I want a spellcaster-heavy army, and the Pain Cage bonuses (and the sheer number of casters, including the Witch Queen) seem to make Darkspawn a good choice. The only other non-Savage North doctrine relating to spellcasting I saw was the Hand of Sokar, but that only applies to counterspelling (although they do have Neb'nesew Ne'pet as well...), so I think Darkspawn is the way to go. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but Cruel Casting says you only have to damage models, not kill them; it seems like you could abuse this with Regeneration.

I'm still working in the army builder, but I might post one later.

#47 Ddot

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 02:12 AM

Welcome to the boards.

I imagine you could "abuse" CruelCastings with Regeneration, but it's iffy at best. There isn't that much Regen available and most of it tends to be the /3 variety. It's a 40%chance and if it fails you've done the opposition's work for them.

Now... If you want to play rough, Crescent of Bile and bring Rauthoros (as a Solo) and his Regen/5. Even if you try the abuse and fail, you've got a seriioous beatstick to use. Woo-hoo!!!

#48 Greywolf

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 09:31 AM

I play a nothing but demon list ( I don't like elves ). Demons only have 1 true spellcaster and he's not that good. So that being said I like the heal a point and add to the mav features of the pain cage. Healing your troops in a army that really has regen to heal it's troops rocks. Of course I only use pain cage when I'm taking it easy on my opponent normally I use the dc. So even tho you are caster heavy don't forget about the other benefits of the pain cage.

#49 Azazel

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 03:55 PM

Hey people.

Just looking for feedback and suggestions for improvement on a 600pts Darkspawn warband.
Since our last gaming session, we've decided to up the points from 500 to 600, which put me to the test considering applying the 100 extra points in the most optimal way.

Here's the list I've come up with so far.

Darkspawn - 596 points

Troop 1
Rahl, Duke of Pain
Maugrathoth, Demon
D'Khul, Bathalian
Demon Imp x 2
Broken Fodder x 2

Troop 2
Keradaan
Magic Ranged Weapon
Incubus/Succubus Warrior x 4

Troop 3
Aundine

Troop 4
Marilith

Troop 5
Luck Stone

14 models/30 Dam. tracks
4+1 Initiative cards
1 spy

My regular opponants are these:(This is what they brought when playing 500pts.)
Crusaders: 8 model Elitist build anchored around Duke Gerard, incl. Valandil, Almaran, Lion, a couple bowmen and foot soldiers

Elves: Prince Danithal, a good deal ranged attacks, some casting. (Cant remember exactly.)

Mercenaries: Bounty doctrine, uses 2 Reven Kagunk's , Leisynn, priest'ish healer, a couple xbow-men, axemen, thugs, warriors.

I've had good success running a 500pt list exactly like the one I posted above, excluding Maugratoth and luckstone more or less. I felt like I was lacking punch against the uglies like Duke Gerard, Danithal and the dual ogre kagunks with mighty, so I basically decided to invest the total 100 into getting Maugrathoth fielded.

I'd love to hear your thoughts in good comboes and synergies I might pursue with a build such as this, or suggestions on how to better allocate my points or design my troops. Any input is appreciated.

Thx in advance.

- Azazel

#50 Stubbdog

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 10:04 AM

As with any faction, there are a ton of ways to go. And as soon as you make some tweaks to your list, so do your opponents... The main thing you can do is try to find a few synergies and try and maximize them. For example, with Darkspawn, the main synergies I build my lists are:

The Arachnid warriors having SA Assassin (so I might take a battle totem to get their mav higher, and pair them with cheap soldiers like broken fodder or goatmen to get support bonuses)

Casters with Stunning spells (and damage causing stunning spells). I would use familiars to be able to keep the casters out of harms way while causing havoc with the enemy. Nothing drives an opponent more crazy than to not be able to carry out their plans cause part of their army is stuck. Not to mention while they are stunned they dont get to take defensive swings.

The Imps with provoke matched with just about anyone. Again with a battle totem or support they can frustrate opponents by not letting them swing at your more expensive models.

Pain tenders. With reach and disable.. enough said..

The combination of Xeldorian and casters that can cast barrage or fire shot on him...

The most evil combination I love using (it doesnt always work cause the situation does not always present itself) is taking the Witch Queen and the 54 point Soultender. If you can play your cards right and get the Soultender in the middle of the enemy without getting him hurt, the Queen casts "Exploding Sacrifice" on it... oh the lovely pain that brings... (1 point and shaken - which also helps whatever soldiers attacks that run in after that)

Point is, there are a huge number of options that you can use with the Darkspawn. Yes, they have some good muscle that you can add in, but they also have the ability to take away some of the muscle of the enemy. That to me is one of their strong points. For me, a well balanced Darkspawn army is one that has equal offensive power as they do crippling power.

Hope that helps..

With only 600 points you obviously wont be able to take everything.. But, hopefully that helps give you a few ideas on how to play Darkspawn multiple times and yet have completely different looks each time to keep your opponents guessing.

#51 Azazel

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 04:17 AM

Thanks alot for your input Stubbdog, its much appreciated!

With the small warbands we run, its my general feel that every point counts. It becomes extremely hard to be a force in all areas, and it takes carefull consideration how to allocate your precious few points.

The general philosophy I've applied for our 500 point skirmishes, has been to limit the cost of single models to a 100 point max. In my (limited) experience it seems to lessen negative variance, in the sense that bad dice luck, or a single tactical brainfart, wont see 30-50% of your warband dead in one fell swoop.


The negative side to this approach has definately been the hardships of dealing with powerhouses such as Duke Gerard, Prince Danithal or Argyrian the one time that thing showed up. It has definately forced me to put extra consideration into my movement phase, as well as banking on having more initiative cards than my opponants.

* Denying enemy powerhouses the oppertunity to get into melee fast, rather maneuvering outta the way to hopefully stun or weaken them before committing to melee.
* Spreading opponant thin by threatening his backfield with flyers.
* Forcing my opponant to act/move using barrage.
* Stun with Debilitating pain or Mindblast + superior movement on Marilith or flyers.
* Carefull maneuvering to always have 2+ troops there to support eachother.
(Rahl cant whoop Danithal, but Im willing to sacrifice him, if I can get the kill with Aundine immidiately after.)
* Barrage from Keradaan + Swift attack from Succubi works great in unison.


Succeeding just feels that much better, if you achieve it using a multitude of strategies and synergies to dictate how your enemy plays. Forcing your opponant to react etc.
If we all just brought the biggest melee tank our armylist could muster and raced for the middle, it wouldn't be nearly as fun and rewarding an experience.

Last time we played, my opponants did whine a bit, claiming I play it too sneaky and safe. I wonder what they'd say, If I abandoned this semi-soft list with Pain Doctrine, and instead brought some kinda elitist build and daisychained them instead. :poke:

Anyways. Nuff ranting.

- Azazel

#52 Azazel

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Posted 08 March 2011 - 05:54 PM

Due to communication breakdown, I showed up with a 600pt army for a 750pt battle monday night.

After some hasty additions and some proxying for the models I hadnt brought along, we got down to fighting.

Now I'm working on revising my 600pt list for 750pts, putting a little more thought into the process. Heres what I've come up with.

Darkspawn - 746 points

Troop 1
Witch Queen
Familiar
Maugrathoth, Demon x 2
Demon Imp x 2
Broken Fodder x 2
Incubus/Succubus Warrior x 2

Troop 2
Keradaan
Magic Ranged Weapon
Incubus/Succubus Warrior x 4
Broken Fodder x 2

Troop 3
Aundine

Troop 4
Marilith
Magic Weapon

Troop 5
Luck Stone

Doctrine: Im thinking Demonic Conclave, but imo the list can do both.
18 models
39 Damage tracks
4 Initiative cards
2 spies

Basically the list is all about dictating when/where fighting is gonna happen. A sizable amount of the list is flying, which adds constant pressure on opponants with inferior speed and freedom of movement. Its my experience that its extremely hard for opponants to remain organized, and move across the board, if their backfield and flanks are patrolled by flyers.
Should the opponant decide to tighten formations to protect softer models against flyers, it should provide for some juicy targets for the witchqueens CP 10 AOE spells shipped thru the familiar, and ofc Keradaans barrage.

I'm gonna be banking alot on using synergies between spells and melee by stunning targets, before sending in either succubi on softer targets, or the Maugratoth can-openers against bigger threats. Alternatively barrage on keradaan to weaken models before swiftattacking them with succubi.

The Broken Fodder will act as screening for Keradaan and the Witchqueen in the earlier turns, and if need be for cruel casting in later turns.
Imps provide support and provoke for the big guys.
Aundine stealthily spies around acting as bodyguard for Keradaan/Witchqueen, or alternatively to provide killing blows against already weakened enemy elites.

The Demonic Conclave doctrine gives me the option to slingshot various constellations of models into my opponants backfield, depending on what kinda force im facing. 2xMaugratoth + Marilith for brute force against big pointsink models, or alternatively 3+ Succubi to do a surgical strike on a softer model.

Should I go with Pain Doctrine, most of the tokens will go towards boosting the Witchqueens spellcasting, as well as healing the occational model so it can go one more round.


I'd love to hear your thoughts on the list, aswell as any suggestions for tweaking.

Thx in advance.

- Azazel

#53 Stubbdog

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 11:33 AM

Making me think Darkspawn got me playing with lists...
Here is a list that I think might be fun to try sometime soon..

Darkspawn - 998 points

Troop 1
Witch Queen - Familiar
D'Khul, Bathalian
Jhorxia, Succubus - Armor of Courage
Nasithe - Armor of Courage
Isiri Arachnid Warrior x 4
Demon Imp x 4
Broken Fodder x 2

Troop 2
Guros, Baron of Whips
Thuusia, Pain Mage - Flask of Hellfire
Incubus/Succubus Warrior x 5

Troop 3
Devourer of Mashaf

Troop 4
Soultender

Extra
Luck Stone
----------------------------------
4 troops + 1 spy +1 tactician
23 models (6 casters) (53 DTs)


Built around the idea of casting spells to pre-occupy and cause general havoc with the enemy while the melee soldiers make their way across the field. Flyers make a bee-line to enemy casters or archers.

Then when my melee guys do get there, lots of assassin mixed in to try and lessen the number of defensive swings that happen.

Meanwhile, force the enemy to break up and try to run at my casters and use my flyers to pick them off if it is singles making the attempt.

In the middle of the game, witch can either summon some spectral minions for personal protection, burn things, or just explode something, either way lots of fun.

#54 Stubbdog

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 12:24 PM

As for the 750 point list, just cause of my personal play style, I would probably:

drop:
Aundine
Marilith's weapon
1 fodder from troop 2

Gain:
Dhkul

I just think that Darkspawn is at its best when it is causing havoc with spells.

#55 Stubbdog

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 04:11 PM

More fun with Darkspawn. You know, I have never gone "heavy" with Darkspawn. So, I decided, what the heck, let's see what a heavy list might look like. I gotta say, this one looks real tempting to play...

Darkspawn - 999 points

Troop 1
Witch Queen - Familiar, Crescent of Bile
Bathalian Centurian
D'Khul, Bathalian
Jhorxia, Succubus
Bathalian Exarch x 3
Demon Imp x 2

Troop 2
Vysa
Thuusia, Pain Mage
Broken Fodder x 5

Troop 3
Soultender

Troop 4
Rauthuros

Extra
Luck Stone
--------------------------
4 troops: +1 spy +1 tactician
18 models (44 DTs)

Basically, this list is built around Disable and Nauseating. 10 models have Nauseating. 6 have SA Disable, and others have casting Rot. So, hopefully, about 50% of the enemies fail their check when they charge me. And if I can disable 50% of the enemies that I charge, together the it means not enough swings for the enemy to win.

The obvious main focus of the enemy is going to be Rauthy. It is usually best to use him to lead the enemy where you want them to go, so that you can control the field with the rest of the army. But, don't just rush him in there, unless you can force the enemy into a funnel to get at him.

Jhorxia focuses on the support models. Anything that she can kill in one go, but hopefully on the outskirts so that she can fly again after to her next victim instead of being swarmed.

Even though they are not in the same troop, the fodder is there more to help follow Rauthy around and limit the enemy's ability to swarm him. It means that Rauthy will move a little slower himself as well, but keeping him alive is most important.

Obviously, toss in a few spells and now we are having fun.

Variant: One variant would be to forego Rauthy and instead toss in 5 Arachnid Warrior Assassins.

#56 Azazel

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 08:16 AM

As for the 750 point list, just cause of my personal play style, I would probably:

drop:
Aundine
Marilith's weapon
1 fodder from troop 2

Gain:
Dhkul

I just think that Darkspawn is at its best when it is causing havoc with spells.



I've been considering your suggestion for tweaking, and decided that I prolly agree.
In the past couple skirmishes, where I've used Aundine, she's been somewhat of an underachiever. The added spy is great, but maneuvering her into favourable melee situations is fairly difficult. She might still be valuable in terms of making opponants adjust to her presence, but I still feel like her points are somewhat wasted if I cant put her melee ability to use.
D'Khul on the other hand has been my MVP more than once, due to his great spellselection and good CP. He's fairly survivable for a 2DT caster, with ok DV and defensive skills such as Ranked SA etc.

So all in all, I tend to agree that D'Khul is the better option. The loss of the magic weap on Marilith is really no biggie in a list with 2 x Maugratoth to do the heavy duty damage as well. Without the magic weapon Marilinth will still be a force to recon with, and works great for dealing with rank and file troops and low to midlevel enemy elites/solo's.

Again thanks alot for your input Stubbdog. It is much appreciated!

- Azazel

#57 Stubbdog

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 09:40 AM

Man, I just can't stop....

Darkspawn - 996 points

Troop 1
Rauthuros - Book of Tactics
D'Khul, Bathalian
Ice Demon x 4
Isiri Pain Tender x 6
Musician

Troop 2
Keradaan
Isiri Arachnid Warrior x 6

Extra
Luck Stone
Totem of Battle
-------------------------------
2 troops +2 tactician
19 models (52 DTs)

Kinda a one trick pony list, but still looks fun. I think I would try to use it with the pain cage but at the same time would have no problems running it with the conclave too.

List is built around Rauthy's Warlord Ability granting Rush Attack and Rage to all models in his troop. All his soldiers are MA#1 guys, but that is ok, cause it works well for this particular tactic. With Rage, support, and the Totem, the Ice demons will run up and cleave with MAV 8s. The tenders will run up behind them and be disabling reaches with MAV 7s.

Rauth will come up in the middle of that so that his flanks are protected from swarmation.

Meanwhile the spiders will enjoy the Totem's bonus for their assassination attempts.

DKhul and Keradaan stand in the back ground working their ploys from afar.

#58 psyberwolfe1

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 12:09 PM

So any suggestions on effective DS elf builds using the Witch Queen and Rauthuros in the same army. Also ideas on effectively employing Isiri Archers where they can get more than a single activation of shooting.

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#59 Stubbdog

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 01:08 PM

Here is one idea that at least fits your criteria and at least looks like it would provide for a little fun.

Darkspawn - 998 points

Troop 1
Witch Queen - Crescent of Bile, Familiar
D'Khul, Bathalian
Maugrathoth, Demon
Demon Imp x 4
Isiri Pain Tender x 4

Troop 2
Keradaan
Isiri Archer x 4

Troop 3
Rauthuros

Troop 4
Vysa
Jhorxia, Succubus - Flask of Hellfire
Broken Fodder x 5
----------------------------
4 troops +1 tactician +1 spy
24 models (49 DTs)

You would spread the archers out and hopefully behind cover, then use their indirect fire or focus and shoot.

Obviously Rauthy is there to be the big hammer, try your best to move him between the rest of your soldiers to minimize the swarming. Also, you can wait and not deploy him in the beginning depending on what the enemy is fielding. You can then summon him in by the Witch queen when the time is right.

Jhorxia is armed with a one shot surprise blast that the enemy wont be expecting. I would almost use it to target right next to Rauthy when he is surrounded or almost surrounded.

Imps can be used to attack things that are swarming Rauth to clean him off so to speak. And paintenders keep swings to a minimum for the opponent.

And of course, you cant forget the queen herself.. with her faithful sidekick DKhul (anyone notice a trend in my darkspawn lists?).. tossing spells of fun all over the place.

#60 psyberwolfe1

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 06:54 PM

Well you just confirmed what I've been thinking. All elf DS builds, with the exception of Rauthy, are not all that viable. Isri Warriors, Aundine, and Nasithe are not as good as other options. I think the addition of Paintenders would be helpful. Here is my current build.

Darkspawn - 1000 points

Troop 1
Witch Queen
Crescent of Bile
Familiar x 2
Nasithe
Thuusia, Pain Mage
Isiri Warrior x 4
Isiri Archer x 3
Musician
Luck Stone

Troop 2
Keradaan
Magic Ranged Weapon
Isiri Archer x 3
Isiri Warrior x 3

Troop 3
Rauthuros
Gruesome Weapon

Troop 4
Aundine

4 Troops + 2 Spy
19 troops (45DT)

Hmm and it's too late to change for me to finish painting because I'm half way through painting this. Is this list even salvageable?

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Does anybody else find it odd, by the way, that the information age has led to language becoming an oblique and imprecise tool where even the most straightforward phrasing is pored over with chicken entrails and bone tossing to divine the true meaning?


... nobody remembers Slave Leia because, "Oh my gosh! What innovative use of bronze."

 
 
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