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#46 Wedge

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 04:36 PM

I have a lot of experience in warhammer, mordheim, <insert all other GM games here>. Playing that game I saw the importance of having the draws in the draw deck. So does this game lend itself more to a min/max theory in order to maximize draws for turn advantage, if so how does this apply to Necropolis?


Gaining initiative over your opponent is typically a desirable thing especially once your troops are engaged in fighting, although I would like to point out that it is not always good. For example during the Setup phase it is often advantageous to have your opponent deploy their troops before you so you can place your troops more re-actively, creating favorable match-ups between your troops and theirs. Also typically the first game turn is spent jockeying for position on the field in order to discover where engagement will take place first. In this situation also, it is usually to your advantage to force your opponent to commit his initial moves, so that you may even have a chance to engage him and deal damage on the first round, while he was forced to only move. In these two situations, it would be to your advantage to have less initiative cards in the deck, so your opponents cards are more likely to come up first. This is one reason why the Tactician SA is so useful... since you can choose when to add that extra card to the deck (ie don't add it early in the game, but once you are engaged, put it in).

There are many players that will play highly effective armies that consist of only one or two troops. While this severely limits the number of cards in the initiative deck, it also creates a situation that when their number does come up, they hit like a sledgehammer, activating up to 1000 points worth of models at a single time in a coordinated fashion.

In the end it comes down to personal preference, what you are trying to accomplish, and how more or less troops helps or hinders that strategy.

Most of this thread is consisted of army list, but I would like to know apart from that, what playing style does this army excel at? In other game systems I am used to a highly mobile army where I chose where and when to fight. I can usually turn that to my advantage.


There are lots of different things you can do with any faction, although one of the most unique and potent things the Necropolis specifically has access to is their Vampire sub faction. By using Judas's Warlord Ability which grants Bloodlust to models in his troop, in combination with the Devourer Doctrine which bumps the Bloodlust bonus from +1 to +2 you have created a situation where your models have a significant bonus to their attack rolls which help bring down wounded models fast. Tie that together with the Vampire SA that allows you to gain one DT back when you defeat a model in B2B and you are basically healing yourself for killing enemies -- which is something you were going to do anyway. By including some archers or mages in your army you can wound an enemy safely from a good distance away, then close into melee with your Vampires who now have their Bloodlust activated.

As far as a highly mobile force is concerned, you should look at the variety of models with Flyer within the Necropolis as well as their Deathrider cavalry. High mobility is always an asset, and that is no different in this game.

I currently have this:

Judas Bloodspire, Anointed of Hars
Count Vandrian, Crimson Knight
Malek, the Hated
Sir Dauron, Death Knight
Syphrilia, Succubus
Crimson Knight x 3
Wraith Harvester x 3
Aysa, Ghost

If I want to maximize my Scenario Points I have to tailor the army to both meet the scenario objectives + worry about the other person trying to kill my models. Going to a min/max theory what would you think of this army?

Necropolis - 1000 points

Troop 1
Judas Bloodspire, Anointed of Hars
Chattel x 3

Troop 2
Eikar, Crypt Bat
Syphrilia, Succubus
Crypt Bat x 2

Troop 3
Sir Athak, Crimson Knight
Crimson Knight x 3

Troop 4
Sir Gadrun, Deathrider
Deathrider x 2

Troop 5
Sir Gauren the Wrathful
Wraith Harvester x 4

Troop 6
Aysa, Ghost
Book of Tactics

Troop 7
Kaena, Banshee

I donít know if it has enough punching power, I know things will die, but will they help me in the scenarios?


In response to this army with regard to the three scenarios that will be at the Gamer's Realm tournament I will break it down by scenario:

General Murphy: This scenario is the closest to a normal "kill em all" game that we have in our scenario list, and as such, any list that is good in a normal Warlord game should succeed here. Random deployment may play slightly against you to some degree with 7 troops, as you will be making 7 separate dice rolls to see where your forces are placed. This may be good or bad depending on how those rolls and your opponents turn out, but its likely that you will have forces spread across the whole of the board and this may hinder your ability to focus your firepower effectively. At the same time, if your rolls turn out favorable this may not happen, its nearly impossible to say.

Ruins of the Ancients: This scenario can be best thought of as King of the Hill, and as such, the center of the board turns into a meat grinder. Cheaper lower DT models typically fair poorly in this scenario that is mainly designed to favor higher cost soldiers, elites and leaders. Judas will be a great asset to you here as will all your Crimson Knights, although you might seriously consider giving Judas a few solid soldiers to accompany him into battle at least to give him support and prevent him from being completely surrounded, as your opponent will likely kill your Chattel very quickly leaving Judas to attack alone with no snacks to eat :) You might consider consolidating some of your 7 troops into 3 or 4 more beefy troops with this scenario in the mix.

Treacherous Chasm: With 6 choices of platforms to setup on, and 7 total to control, your 7 troops will offer you an interesting advantage to be able to place at least one troop on each of the platforms during setup, giving you a nice early game jump on controlling the board (since most players do not bring that many troops in 1000). Your stronger models in particular will be excellent guardians of the platforms and you may be able to block some of the bridge access with your fodder type of troops. If you can distract your opponent long enough, you may have an interesting build for this scenario, although a determined foe will likely give you a run for your money and you may find that several of your small troops will be eliminated early in the game when your opponent chooses a platform you already occupy as the starting location for one of his larger troops.

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#47 Stubbdog

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 04:59 PM

give me a day or two to think on this one.. card count is one thing, but so is strength of troops too... i just looked at the scenarios and I am not sure that this list is optimized for the scenarios listed.

#48 Deathlui

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 07:26 PM

Thanks for the input. I can try and guess at it all I want, but without having more games under my belt, it will be just that a guess.

A smaller army that I was considering with less troops would have been this (love the fact that reaper has an online Army Creator for all your theory crafting needs):

Necropolis - 994 points

Troop 1
Judas Bloodspire, Anointed of Hars
Count Vandrian, Crimson Knight x 3

Troop 2
Sir Athak, Crimson Knight
Crimson Knight x 3

Troop 3
Eikar, Crypt Bat
Syphrilia, Succubus
Crypt Bat x 2

Troop 4
Aysa, Ghost
Book of Tactics

Troop 5
Luck Stone

So the thinking is:

Troop 1 is a fast shock troop, basically saying just bring it. Having the first strike is important just so they can bloody the enemy and then take advantage of the +2 Mav bonus for bloodlust with their other attacks.

Troop 2 just a solid block of warriors

Troop 3 fast mobile, being a ranger can't hurt and being able to swoop in do an attack then swoop out is nice.

Troop 4 I think I just have a crush on her, something about having a model that can summon other models is pretty cool.

#49 Wedge

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 10:39 PM

Hehe, I think Aysa is pretty cool too ;)

There is something I've noticed in regards to your troop creation that is a very common mistake new players will make.

When you look at a Leader's troop capacity, for example Judas Bloodspire, you will see the following numbers: 3-10/3

The first part before the slash (3-10) shows the minimum and maximum number of soldier models that the leader can have in their troop. The second number after the slash is the maximum number of Elite models the leader may have in their troop. So, Judas must have at least 3 soldier models in his troop in order to make a legal troop and Elites do not count towards this number. So while Judas can lead 3 Count Vandrian, Crimson Knight Elites, he must also lead a minimum of 3 soldiers (such as the 3 Chattel from your first build) to make this a legal troop.

This same mistake also happened in your troop led by Eikar, Crypt Bat.

Don't sweat it though, its a very easy mistake to make :)

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#50 Deathlui

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 11:13 AM

Yeah didn't know that, back to the drawning board.

#51 wana10

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 01:15 AM

Hello, new person to the game and was hoping for some feedback on a necro list I'm thinking about. I've only played a couple of games thus far and they were as overlords and so before jumping in and buying (more) models (than I already have...) I was going to try a couple other armies to see how they played. We normally play 1000pt games with two players with 500pt forces on either side. How does this look for a 500pt necro list?

Troop 1
Rhasia
Count Vandrain
7x Zombies

Troop 2
Sir Gadrun
4x Deathriders

My thought were that the toughness 4 zombies could tie up enemy troops and then the deathriders could swoop in and gang up on the tied up enemies with their first strikes.
Any feedback appreciated.

#52 ViciousPanzer

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 11:02 AM

That sounds like a sound tactic! First Strike is one of the very best offensive SA's and is perfect for finishing off models with tough while minimizing your loses (since they reeive no defensive strikes if First strike kills them).

The only real catch is going to be activation order since with 2 troops (even with a spy) it may be difficult to dictate when your Deathriders get to make their first strike charge of doom. But it seems like a fairly strong list that can do well. I like Vandrian with Rhasia so now he has a tough/3 check which could be a game winner for you at times. ::):

Here's another list to consider that is a little lighter on the melee front but brings some more eldritch chicanery with an oft under utilized and overlooked Seargent:

Necropolis - 500 points

Troop 1
Rhasia, Zombie Queen
Count Vandrian, Crimson Knight
Zombie x 7

Troop 2
Railor of the Unbodied
Familiar
Deathrider x 4

Railor has a few nice spells in the death tome that can sway things largely in a 500pt battle. Necromantic Surge is a great way to heal an undead (in this instance Vandrian) while Life Drain and Fear are both excellent for offense. You can hang Railor way back and just maintain LoS with the Familiar to keep him safe or change out the familiar for a book of tactics and a luck stone.

I think both lists are fantastic though and either one will put the fear of undeath in your opponent when played well! :zombie:

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#53 wana10

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 01:02 AM

Thanks for the feedback. I'll give the list a try next game night(yours or mine will be a last minute decision I'm predicting) and report back.

#54 Greywolf

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 10:39 AM

here is a 499 pt list i ran

elsabeth w/book of tactics
malek
c knights x4
chattel x3
albatross amulet

bat swarm x2

the bats have to be summoned as a shock once mele has begun to get around the fact that elsabeth has only two elite slots
no ranged means close fast ... c knights can take it if not they have potions aka chattel
once they get there it's on elsabeth is a great mele fighter also and malek can be used for attack or heals

#55 vejlin

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 05:02 PM

I'm pretty sure you cannot use Summoned to circumvent army composition rules like that. Yes Summoned lets you not deploy models at the start, and when Summoned they ignore the capacity rules. But nowhere does it say that Summoned can be used to ignore the composition rules at build time.
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#56 Greywolf

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 01:09 PM

That's what I was going off of the fact that summon says it ignores troop capacity if I'm wrong no biggie a little modification and the list is still good

#57 Greywolf

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 01:22 PM

498

unit 1

elsabeth

bat swarm x2

c knights x4

chattel x2

unit 2

Aysa

same thing would still summon the bats till you get into melee plus with this list aysa is a more powerfull caster and you don't use albatross

#58 spiritual_exorcist

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 08:06 AM

Played a game the other day with the following:
Necropolis, Crypt Legion Doctrine - 1000 points

Troop 1
Elsabeth Briarkiss
Tharian, Bloodmagus
Crimson Knight x 2
Skeletal Swordman x 3
Skeletal Warrior x 3

Troop 2
Sir Athak, Crimson Knight
Crimson Knight x 2
Skeletal Swordman x 3
Skeletal Warrior x 3

Troop 3
Railor of the Unbodied
Skeletal Swordman x 4
Skeletal Warrior x 4

Troop 4
Railor of the Unbodied
Skeletal Archer x 4

Troop 5
Railor of the Unbodied
Skeletal Archer x 4

Game went fairly well, played against a Savage North playtest army (Icingstead), and I had what I would call a marginal victory. One thing I had forgotten (this being my first game in about a year) was just how easy it can be for an opponent to chew through 1-track models (although I admit I did make a fair few Tough/0 rolls thanks to the Crypt Legion). One track horde armies are not for the feint of heart ::): Still, considering the low points cost of the skeletons, they proved to be very valuable, and did their job in holding up the enemy and backing up my heavy hitting Crimson Knights.
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#59 Brushmaster

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 04:58 AM

Yeh , it was a very close thing to watch . If it had not been for one decision mid game , it could have gone the other way for Scott .
Law of averages , I only think you got 2 or 3 more tough rolls than you should . I think I've discovered a way to beat Crimson Knights tough . :devil:
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#60 spiritual_exorcist

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 09:49 PM

Yeh , it was a very close thing to watch . If it had not been for one decision mid game , it could have gone the other way for Scott .
Law of averages , I only think you got 2 or 3 more tough rolls than you should . I think I've discovered a way to beat Crimson Knights tough . :devil:


My Vampires performed reasonably well, but I really only fed on two occasions, regaining 3 tracks in the process, so their Vampire SA, while it did come into play, was hardly dominating, simply due to the fact that I was fighting a very low model count army, particularly on the side of the field that the Vampires had been deployed.
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