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Beholder WIP

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I've finished the inside of the mouth, the tongue and added the teeth. I'll eventually be adding gums around the teeth which will cover the base of the teeth. I also bulked out the back and underside of it.

 

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Comments welcome,

 

Andy

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First off, really nice work, far better than anything I could possibly do.

 

However, since you probably are looking for feedback more than just compliments (which are still always nice!), he needs more expression in his face as if he were lifting his upper lip in a snarl. At this point, his expression is very neutral, as if he were told by his dentist to "say ahhh." The teeth, tongue, etc. are all very scary in themselves, but he doesn't look like he's trying to be manacing. Does that make sense?

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First off, really nice work, far better than anything I could possibly do.

 

However, since you probably are looking for feedback more than just compliments (which are still always nice!), he needs more expression in his face as if he were lifting his upper lip in a snarl. At this point, his expression is very neutral, as if he were told by his dentist to "say ahhh." The teeth, tongue, etc. are all very scary in themselves, but he doesn't look like he's trying to be manacing. Does that make sense?

 

Perfect sense. You're the second person to bring it up too. I appreciate it as your validation of the issue means a lot.

 

So now I have a quandary, how does one make a creature without lips snarl?

 

1. I could change my concept and add lips and facial muscles, but I like the crocodilian lipless thing.

2. I could leave the mouth alone, but add a heavy brow ridge to make him frown (already plan on that).

3. On the sculpting forum, one sculptor mentioned that I could trim the stretched cheek skin back to make 90 deg corners, making the mouth less round in shape. I'm still trying to figure out how that would work.

 

I haven't added the skin yet, so really from a finished detail perspective, anything goes at this point.

 

Thoughts and ideas would be welcome. Oh and thanks, MG!

 

Andy

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Well to start I just want to say this is awesome. Very much like how it looks so far.

 

To answer your snarl question I would suggest looking at some pics of a great white shark. They sort of "throw" their teeth forward when they attack. Hard to explain but it sure looks aggresive with the gums and teeth protruding. Since they have no lips to speak of thought it might give you some inspiration.

 

Just my opinion but this guy could do with some Klingon style forehead ridges too. I see you were planning that but thought a little extra encouragement wouldn't hurt. Please keep this up.

 

My 2 bits.

 

SB

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Just my opinion but this guy could do with some Klingon style forehead ridges too. I see you were planning that but thought a little extra encouragement wouldn't hurt. Please keep this up.

 

My 2 bits.

 

SB

 

Thanks! That is EXACTLY what I have in mind, with the back of the head being sort of like the Minbari in Babylon 5, but not as far down the sides of the head.

 

So, I have the mouth thing figured out though it is hard to explain. It will be rather crocodilian, with the stretched cheeks you see now being a membrane under the gaping grin. So is an upturned grin or a down turned corner more menacing. I'm leaning toward the maniacal grin look.

 

Andy

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On a human, one of the big things that show anger is the eyebrows. But beholders don't have eyebrows... Thinking about this, I did a google image search to see what made the angriest beholders look so angry. You know what? It's the eyebrows. I know, I know. Just bear with me here and I'll explain...

 

This one has a scale above the eye with ridges on it that are shaped a bit like angry eyebrows. IMO it really helps this beholder look PO'ed.

 

On this one, it is also a scale above the eye that is somewhat reminiscent of angry eyebrows, though in this case it's more due to the lower edge of the scale covering the top of the eyeball in a sort of U-shape. But he sort of looks more grumpy than truly filled with rage, I suppose... Perhaps if that lower scale-edge were more V-shaped than U-shaped, the sullen look might have come off as more angry; hard to say.

 

Pretty much all of their mouths look angry, or at least crazy-evil (which ought to suffice in a pinch), though there are a couple that turned up with frowny mouths that really only made them look sad. A couple had evil smiles that I found quite effective, though the best example of that is also my 1st and best eyebrow example (and the corners of the mouth are sort of hidden by some 'stache-like tentacle-scales)

 

So, I don't know - it's just a theory, but my feeling is that some scale-work that is somewhat reminiscent of angry eyebrows might be your best bet here. I hope this helps.

 

All that aside, I also wanted to mention how awesome it is to watch this thing progress. You don't see too many step-by-step threads that go into so much detail here in the sculpting forum, so I am really appreciating getting a glimpse into the whole process here. Your beholder is coming along really nicely so far and I can't wait to see him progress in the updates I hope will continue to follow. Thanks!

 

Kang

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Hello,

 

Along with the great advice and comments here, Gene Van Horne graciously e-mailed me some excellent advice on how to add more emotion into this piece, which was really great and really made my day. I did most of what he suggested, primarily added a crease along the jaw, bulked out the cheek muscles, cut back the cheeks, and added a lower eye lid. I patterned the lower eyelid after my own when I snarl. The only thing he mentioned that I didn't do was to rework the upper jaw and teeth to pull them up and outward and make the teeth larger. I guess I like them the size they are (for now) and want to see what it all looks like when I get the top scales on (which will add a frowning brow ridge to the mix).

 

I also bent the tentacle wires and underpinned their bases.

 

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Comments welcome.

 

Oh, and thanks again Gene, I really appreciate it!

 

Andy

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I'm glad I could help. :blush:

 

He's looking really good Andy! One final suggestion for you though. I would consider adding some nasal labial folds around the outside of his mouth like this Since he doesn't have a nose, they would go from under his cheeks down to his jaw crease, kinda like this (O). I think that would really make it POP.

 

I'd say you've got an EXCELLENT Beholder there, keep up the GREAT work!! ::D:

 

Gene

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I'm glad I could help. :blush:

 

He's looking really good Andy! One final suggestion for you though. I would consider adding some nasal labial folds around the outside of his mouth like this Since he doesn't have a nose, they would go from under his cheeks down to his jaw crease, kinda like this (O). I think that would really make it POP.

 

I'd say you've got an EXCELLENT Beholder there, keep up the GREAT work!! ::D:

 

Gene

 

Thanks, I'll add that in after I get the head crest done. I've been slowly adding a row of crest scales each session, but now I have to take a week off due to being overwhelmingly busy.

 

Thanks, Patrick as well. I hope you mean the direction and dynamics of them, since they are a long way from being done. :poke:

 

Andy

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I also love beholders. I have to know if you have seen this guy: http://www.dotd.com/mm/beh.gif . It is from the D&D 2nd ed. monster manual and it's an undead beholder. I always thought the undead beholder was the coolest thing ever (started playing dnd when I was 9).

I have to say that your beholder is looking impressive and I have to agree with the needed expression. The "grumpy" beholder has actually had some remnant of a lip that is curled, showing expression. I DO like the shark gums/teeth idea. Some detail/texture in the skin will add a lot, which I am sure you are planning on doing as a finishing touch. The question I have is, will it be scales, warty, smooth, etc? Keep us posted!

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I also love beholders. I have to know if you have seen this guy: http://www.dotd.com/mm/beh.gif . It is from the D&D 2nd ed. monster manual and it's an undead beholder. I always thought the undead beholder was the coolest thing ever (started playing dnd when I was 9).

I have to say that your beholder is looking impressive and I have to agree with the needed expression. The "grumpy" beholder has actually had some remnant of a lip that is curled, showing expression. I DO like the shark gums/teeth idea. Some detail/texture in the skin will add a lot, which I am sure you are planning on doing as a finishing touch. The question I have is, will it be scales, warty, smooth, etc? Keep us posted!

That beholder looks more scared than grumpy to me!

 

Ishil

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