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basing bones for pathfinder and having issues.

bones basing base pathfinder 1 inch

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#1 pocketcthulhu

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 07:48 AM

After the disaster of trying to order reaper l2p kits from amazon (me yelling at a vendor after 3 weeks of nothing being shipped) I picked up a couple bones to play with to pass the time I have run into a problem.
I ordered a vampire kit for eventual use in pathfinder and using the standard 1" chessix's maps, after debrocoli'ing the cave troll I found to my horror the only way to get (him?) on a 1" base is bending him bolegged which Doesn't look good at all imo. I have a few 1" square swamp tiles like these and a handfull of 1" circles that just seem tiny compared to the stances the bones mini's use.
Posted Image

anyway thoughts/advice?

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#2 bloodydrake

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:23 AM

I just got some 40mm bases since I plan to use the troll in a warlord army.He fits on it great.. Pathfinder Trolls are a 10ft space creature. So really if your only using it for Pathfinder it would make sense to put him on a 50mm base and he'd cover 2"x 2" grid spot.

#3 pocketcthulhu

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:40 AM

While your right most trolls are large creatures / takes up 4 squares but this guy is a medium.
I can't be 100% sure it's the exact same monster but the Pf cave troll is a medium creature and the mini Isn't really any larger than the other medium sized bones I have.
http://www.d20pfsrd....troll-cave-TOHC

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#4 Adrift

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:39 AM

If you compare the cave troll to many of the D&D Miniatures larges, especially the earlier sets (before they increased the large base sizes), he is right in line with those larges. I would recommend against basing a large monster on a 1" square. Besides any size considerations, basing him on a larger base will give you more room for decorating the base and creating a neat scene!

#5 Tranquil Ape

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:44 AM

Some of the minis I use to play pathfinder I based on 28mm bases, slightly larger than an inch and it doesn't seem to cause too much trouble during a game.
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#6 pocketcthulhu

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:39 AM

If you compare the cave troll to many of the D&D Miniatures larges, especially the earlier sets (before they increased the large base sizes), he is right in line with those larges. I would recommend against basing a large monster on a 1" square. Besides any size considerations, basing him on a larger base will give you more room for decorating the base and creating a neat scene!

I completely agree, a large critter shouldn't bet on a 1" tile, the issue is with the medium creatures barely fitting on a tile and they look goofy when they do, il see about getting a pic of what i mean tonight after work.
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#7 Gailbraithe

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 04:50 PM

The Cave Troll model from the Bones line is not a Pathfinder Cave Troll, it's a Reaper Cave Troll. I'm pretty sure the original metal miniature was released around '00-01, somewhere around there. That sculpt is, I believe, older than the Pathfinder RPG. In fact, I'm pretty sure that sculpt predates D&D 3.5, and was released around the same time as 3.0. It's not going to fit on a medium base because it's a large creature.

#8 pocketcthulhu

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:52 PM

Posted Image
DSCN0002 by Color out of space, on Flickr

Here's what has me concerned, on the left is a 28mm large dnd mini followed by a 28mm medium gnoll then a our bones cave troll and medium bones gnoll.
size wise they are the basicly the same as the non heroic 28mm's ist just they have such large stances it's hard to base them. If you guys are right and the cave troll and gnoll are Large bone mini's I am going to be horribly disipointed when i see the medium minis in vampire.
oh and ignore the paint I'v been trying various stripping agents

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#9 psyberwolfe1

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:27 PM

Many of the stances are bigger than what fits on a 25mm round. The diagonal on a 25mm square is 35mm across. If your complaint is height, scale wise they are more accurate (accorfing to the PF Bestiary and Monster Manual) than the D&D PPM. The Gnoll in Bones was sculpted a few years back and the sculptor felt the 2 1/2 shoulder width was more heroic, so a 25mm base will look weird and small under him. He never intended him to fit on a 1" square base. Most trolls in D&D are large which means they take up a 2"x2" area.
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Does anybody else find it odd, by the way, that the information age has led to language becoming an oblique and imprecise tool where even the most straightforward phrasing is pored over with chicken entrails and bone tossing to divine the true meaning?


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#10 Gailbraithe

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:36 PM

Here's what has me concerned, on the left is a 28mm large dnd mini followed by a 28mm medium gnoll then a our bones cave troll and medium bones gnoll.
size wise they are the basicly the same as the non heroic 28mm's ist just they have such large stances it's hard to base them.


The Bones Gnoll is also a large figure, it won't fit on a 1" base. Reaper Miniatures aren't D&D miniatures. They aren't always designed to work perfectly with D&D write-ups of monsters. They're meant to be used with any fantasy RPG, and they have their own scale. Sometimes this can be downright annoying (for example, I love the gnoll sculpts, but I wish they were just a little smaller so they'd fit on a medium base, or at least a 40mm round display base...).

It's worth noting that the "large" Reaper figures vary greatly in size. Some will absolutely dominate a 50mm base -- the Frost Giants, for example, really fill up the base -- while others will fill up a 40mm round, but leave a lot of space on a 50mm square. Take a look at the Festering Spirit that metalchaos just posted in Show Off. That's a largish figure, but metalchaos put his on the edge of a 50mm square and had a HUGE space to do detailed basing. The idea here, from what I've heard Bryan say, is that you can use these figures as large or medium creatures. I mean you can make three of the gnolls stand adjacent to each other in 1" squares even with the broccoli bases. They'll overlap a little and it can be a pain in the butt, but it works. Or you can use them as large creatures.

If you guys are right and the cave troll and gnoll are Large bone mini's I am going to be horribly disipointed when i see the medium minis in vampire.


Eh, I wouldn't worry about it. If you take just about any human figure from the D&D minis line and compare it to a Reaper human, the Reaper model will look more heroic and larger (and a lot more detailed) -- The D&D Mini humans are 25mm scale, about the same as GW's Lord of the Rings minis. Same with orcs and the like. The D&D Mini large and huge figures (especially the later sets) are much bigger than the Reaper equivalents, because they're plastic, but the Reaper mediums are bigger than the D&D mediums.

Plus they're just way, way better. I mean, compare that Bones Gnoll to the D&D Mini Gnoll. The Bones one has better detail, a better pose, and is more dynamic in every way (and also one of my favorite of Tre's sculpts). All of the Bones you'll be receiving are going to be like that relative to whatever D&D monster you compare them to.

Except maybe the owlbear. That's a pretty badass owlbear you got there, and all of Reaper's owlbears kinda suck. Sad but true.
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#11 smokingwreckage

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:14 AM

If you put him on a larger base, it should even out; sure he can block more space, but then, more players can base him for HtH combat. Sometimes stuff is written into a game and very important to the balance, sometimes it's just a convenience. If nothing else, write him up as "Reaper Cave Troll" with a zero-cost minor special ability "Very Wide Stance".

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#12 Gailbraithe

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:19 AM

If you put him on a larger base, it should even out; sure he can block more space, but then, more players can base him for HtH combat. Sometimes stuff is written into a game and very important to the balance, sometimes it's just a convenience. If nothing else, write him up as "Reaper Cave Troll" with a zero-cost minor special ability "Very Wide Stance".


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#13 pocketcthulhu

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:00 PM

Many of the stances are bigger than what fits on a 25mm round. The diagonal on a 25mm square is 35mm across. If your complaint is height, scale wise they are more accurate (accorfing to the PF Bestiary and Monster Manual) than the D&D PPM. The Gnoll in Bones was sculpted a few years back and the sculptor felt the 2 1/2 shoulder width was more heroic, so a 25mm base will look weird and small under him. He never intended him to fit on a 1" square base. Most trolls in D&D are large which means they take up a 2"x2" area.

let's face it we are talking about fantasy creature size so accurate isn't a word I wouldn't throw around alot :p I suppose I have just gotten used to Large creatures being LARGE in relation to the pc's.


Here's what has me concerned, on the left is a 28mm large dnd mini followed by a 28mm medium gnoll then a our bones cave troll and medium bones gnoll.
size wise they are the basicly the same as the non heroic 28mm's ist just they have such large stances it's hard to base them.


The Bones Gnoll is also a large figure, it won't fit on a 1" base. Reaper Miniatures aren't D&D miniatures. They aren't always designed to work perfectly with D&D write-ups of monsters. They're meant to be used with any fantasy RPG, and they have their own scale. Sometimes this can be downright annoying (for example, I love the gnoll sculpts, but I wish they were just a little smaller so they'd fit on a medium base, or at least a 40mm round display base...).

It's worth noting that the "large" Reaper figures vary greatly in size. Some will absolutely dominate a 50mm base -- the Frost Giants, for example, really fill up the base -- while others will fill up a 40mm round, but leave a lot of space on a 50mm square. Take a look at the Festering Spirit that metalchaos just posted in Show Off. That's a largish figure, but metalchaos put his on the edge of a 50mm square and had a HUGE space to do detailed basing. The idea here, from what I've heard Bryan say, is that you can use these figures as large or medium creatures. I mean you can make three of the gnolls stand adjacent to each other in 1" squares even with the broccoli bases. They'll overlap a little and it can be a pain in the butt, but it works. Or you can use them as large creatures.

If you guys are right and the cave troll and gnoll are Large bone mini's I am going to be horribly disipointed when i see the medium minis in vampire.


Eh, I wouldn't worry about it. If you take just about any human figure from the D&D minis line and compare it to a Reaper human, the Reaper model will look more heroic and larger (and a lot more detailed) -- The D&D Mini humans are 25mm scale, about the same as GW's Lord of the Rings minis. Same with orcs and the like. The D&D Mini large and huge figures (especially the later sets) are much bigger than the Reaper equivalents, because they're plastic, but the Reaper mediums are bigger than the D&D mediums.

Plus they're just way, way better. I mean, compare that Bones Gnoll to the D&D Mini Gnoll. The Bones one has better detail, a better pose, and is more dynamic in every way (and also one of my favorite of Tre's sculpts). All of the Bones you'll be receiving are going to be like that relative to whatever D&D monster you compare them to.

Except maybe the owlbear. That's a pretty badass owlbear you got there, and all of Reaper's owlbears kinda suck. Sad but true.


good info thanks and you don't have to sell me on the bones, I Hate Most of my dnd mini's but i was buying them in bulk, and it makes sense as I guess I was assuming that large monsters are large and huge are huge continuation with the dnd

We love the owlbear, he's ate two bards in the last campaign and the party always cringes when he's set on the map In place of random large nasty critter of the night. I picked up an Isabella Locke mini after i saw it in rotation, i have just enough time to get it in and painted before the party is ready to encounter her, and having human sized reaper figure will be nice to see in relation to these others.

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#14 cthulhudarren

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:05 PM

The current bones bugbear and gnoll are DnD large sized. You can't squeeze them on a 1" base. I've gone through the various stages of grief on this and am now at acceptance.
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#15 psyberwolfe1

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:50 PM

let's face it we are talking about fantasy creature size so accurate isn't a word I wouldn't throw around alot :p I suppose I have just gotten used to Large creatures being LARGE in relation to the pc's.


What? Both the Monster Manual and the Pathfinder Bestiary give height. If you assume the figures are 1/48 to 1/56 scale 2 inches is 8' plus The size of most "large" creatures in D&D. Sorry I came from scale modeling. ::D: BTW the Reaper Gnoll shown here is shorter and smaller than my D&D Chainmail Gnolls. He just has a wider stance than them.

2014 Painting Goal: 6 Figures/ 36 Painted as of 01/22/2014

For other Wargame and miniature related stuff you can read my blog at http://tacticalrock.blogspot.com

 
 



Does anybody else find it odd, by the way, that the information age has led to language becoming an oblique and imprecise tool where even the most straightforward phrasing is pored over with chicken entrails and bone tossing to divine the true meaning?


... nobody remembers Slave Leia because, "Oh my gosh! What innovative use of bronze."

 
 
Meep.jpg






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