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CashWiley

Freezing paint

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I just ordered some paint and think it might have been a mistake. It's getting down in the low 20s here at night and most deliveries sit in unheated trucks. I'm pretty sure the paint would freeze and that's bad, right?

 

I pm'd Bryan about it, but just wonder what the general consensus is about shipping paint in the winter (if you live in wonderful snowy areas like I do).

 

If it was just a couple bottles I could test them, but it's 2x108 paint sets ::o:

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Eeeugh... I've never tried it, but I think it would cause one of three things to happen if they froze. Either (a) the paints expand when frozen, causing them to explode, (b) they're never quite right after they thaw, or (c) they don't ever return to a liquid state.

 

It's also possible that paint has a much lower freezing point than plain water, so it might be just fine in a ~20 degree truck.

Edited by Slendertroll

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Bryan said, "In our experience, in winter, the yellows suffer the most, and many colors aren't affected much, if at all."

 

But rather than take my chances (and test 216 bottles of paint!) I emailed Kit to cancel.

 

And now I'm super bummed because I was all excited about getting a ton of new paint to play with when I finish the L2PKs. Then again, it will probably be spring by then anyway! :p

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That's a bummer dude. If I were you I'd look into how acrylic paint works. What makes it "dry"? what keeps it liquid while it's in the bottle? is it an oxygenation process or simple evaporation? i'll do some research and get back to you.

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OT, but, dang, am I going to "need" another set of paints even after the LTPKs? :O

 

Or what sort of techniques, skill level, and interest in experimentation do you find yourself interested in the large paint sets?

 

More importantly, THANKS for posting pics of your blacklining on white primer in the LTPK4 thread! I'm very glad to see the results, and relieved to see that it didn't have that "cartoony" look that I saw on my LTPK2 models -- as well as some blacklining tutorials I saw on the 'net!

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This might be helpful to you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylic_paint

 

Basically the acrylic polymere/pigments are suspended in water. The process of 'drying' is indeed evaporation. Keeping paint bottles/pots sealed prevents evaporation, as does keeping the paint well mixed. If the paint is well mixed (not separated) then it should survive long enough to get to you. Granted it would basically be gel at that point due to thermal contraction. A bath in WARM (not hot) water and a good hardy shaking and you're back in business.

 

However, if the paint has time to separate (which would take forever in the cold btw) and the water froze then those paints would likely be toast. I imagine the water would thaw but thermal contraction of the acrylic component would produce an effect more or less the same as 'drying'.

 

Now, armed with the above theory and the knowledge that Reaper just mixed and poured thousands of fresh bottles of paint (to meet post-KS demand) I'd say you'd have a pretty good chance of getting fresh, well mixed, paints put into the mail. The risk is much lower, but not eliminated. I would find out if the area you're in drops below the freezing point of water and for how long.

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Man, I've got to hand it to Reaper. Such awesome customer service. Bryan cleared this up with, "Rereading that, it sounds like I was saying it was a bad thing to ship now. Let me remind you that for a decade now we have shipped paint all year all over the globe and have had less than a dozen people ever report problems.

 

I genuinely think you will have no issues"

 

But I missed it because I had left work at that point. So, the phone rings as I'm just getting ready to pull the FJ out of the supermarket lot and it's Bryan! He cleared up what he meant by that first quote and we straightened out the order so now it's paint on! Yay!

 

Another angle I hadn't thought of: RAFM. So yeah, I guess I panicked a bit, and learned a good lesson :)

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It seems to me that a shipping company would have a vested interest in keeping parcels in climate controlled containers to avoid this very thing from occurring. Otherwise they would be liable for damage from the elements while in their possession. If your worried that they would leave the package on your doorstep that would allow time enough to freeze, you could request that Reaper send the parcel with a signature required upon receipt. Then if your not there to sign for the delivery it would go back to the UPS distribution center. You could then call UPS and request to pick up the package at a near by UPS center.

 

Just a thought.

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OT, but, dang, am I going to "need" another set of paints even after the LTPKs? :O

 

Or what sort of techniques, skill level, and interest in experimentation do you find yourself interested in the large paint sets?

 

More importantly, THANKS for posting pics of your blacklining on white primer in the LTPK4 thread! I'm very glad to see the results, and relieved to see that it didn't have that "cartoony" look that I saw on my LTPK2 models -- as well as some blacklining tutorials I saw on the 'net!

1. No, you might not "need' paints after the L2PKs. I was going to buy the 1st 108 set and noticed the overlap, so I detailed out the contents of the 5 L2PKs and the 2 KS sets of current production paint and built a BYOPS off that. It allowed me to get the contents of the 1st 108 RMS set and ALL the HD paints (I also had the Rosy triad; and left off 2 paints from the 1st 108 set, so technically you'd be 5 shy).

 

2. I like paint, I like colors, I suck at mixing :)

 

3. You're more than welcome, glad you found it helpful. That's why I nag you to post photos, you never know which one someone is going to go 'aha!' I used brown liner (incl in Kit 4), maybe 3 or 4:1 with water. The idea was to paint it hard against the dark surface and paint right up to it, leaving very little showing. In places where there was already light against dark I may have even painted over it.

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It seems to me that a shipping company would have a vested interest in keeping parcels in climate controlled containers to avoid this very thing from occurring. Otherwise they would be liable for damage from the elements while in their possession. If your worried that they would leave the package on your doorstep that would allow time enough to freeze, you could request that Reaper send the parcel with a signature required upon receipt. Then if your not there to sign for the delivery it would go back to the UPS distribution center. You could then call UPS and request to pick up the package at a near by UPS center.

 

Just a thought.

 

You'd think so. However, my experience with receiving temperature sensitive items indicates that's not necessarily the case, or at least that companies shipping a product for which temperature control is critical tend to take steps to minimize the environmental effect. In the case of products I've dealt with, that's meant shipping overnight (to minimize the time spent in uncontrolled environments) and sometimes packaging the stuff in insulated containers. So, if the people shipping this stuff don't trust UPS to keep it at room temperature, I wouldnt.

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It takes some pretty extreme temperatures for paint to freeze anyway. Odds are really against paint freezing on a delivery truck even an unheated delivery truck. I just went through a 100 or so craft paints that had been kept in an unattached, unheated garage through sub-zero temperatures and didn't lose any of them to freezing.

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Yeah, it's a pretty low risk operation. Personally, I still time my shipments for specific times of the year and try to avoid the winter months. I've never had a problem with Reapers getting too cold, but I have had that problem with others. But in my case I should note that anything except a huge box will go to my external roadside PO (more like PITA) box and it's not always easy to access. So on a real cold day they can freeze in there, doubly so if getting to, or into, the mailbox proves a challenge and I can't get them right away.

 

If you pick up your mail at a post office, or get it delivered at home, it's a lot less risky. Mostly I time my deliveries because zero risk is better than minor risk - and with old paints like Parthas I try to give them the best environment I can, since they're already half fragile with age. But your Reapers should be okay, and if any aren't then at least you know they'll replace them.

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More importantly, THANKS for posting pics of your blacklining on white primer in the LTPK4 thread! I'm very glad to see the results, and relieved to see that it didn't have that "cartoony" look that I saw on my LTPK2 models -- as well as some blacklining tutorials I saw on the 'net!

 

Hey!

 

You got somethin against cartoony? <_<

 

 

*pitter*

 

*pitter patter pitter*

 

*pitter pitter patter pitter patter*

 

*knife sharpening sounds*

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Eeeugh... I've never tried it, but I think it would cause one of three things to happen if they froze. Either (a) the paints expand when frozen, causing them to explode, (b) they're never quite right after they thaw, or (c) they don't ever return to a liquid state.

 

It's also possible that paint has a much lower freezing point than plain water, so it might be just fine in a ~20 degree truck.

 

Also, the answer is often B. The colour might be off, or not mix together right, or flow badly, or any number of things but it's immediately clear that it's Not Right and Will Never Be Right. If I had to describe it, albeit somewhat innacurately, it's almost like it gets a sort of permanent separation that just won't go back together right. Or if it does, it all comes to pieces again when you add to it.

 

Also also, in my experience, Coat D'Arms (and probably P3's) are the most likely to suffer badly in prolonged cold. It might be due to whatever ingredients they use. Parthas fare better, Reaper seem to fare best. Prolonged is usually the key part.

 

Also also also, heat is bad! Remember not to store them near a heat source. That sounds like a no-brainer, but if people fiddle with your thermostat (and I believe it's quite improper to do that) you could be in for a surprise. My paint is stored near a heater that isn't used. Usually. But then one whiny weakling got "cold" and turned it on.

 

Since then I've disconnected it. It's a decorative heater only.

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