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White Wolf Publishing is done

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8 hours ago, Pingo said:

Vampire the Masquerade lives on:

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10209363370308673&id=1456249627

 

(And Kenneth Hite is one fine game designer; this is in good hands.)

 

Listen to "Episode 243: I Do Not Wish to Be a Moth Hat" of the very excellent podcast "Ken and Robin Talk about Stuff", where Ken coyly drops hints about what might be in store for the next edition of Vampire the Masquerade.

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MTG-ThreadNecromancer_3198.jpg

 

52 minutes ago, Pingo said:

 

:huh:  Oi!  I protest!  I do not believe my post was particularly inane.

I agree.

...

...

...

Sorry, I couldn't resist. ::P:

 

I like that there is a new old WoD in the works - ignoring the sheer and utter stupidity that was much of the Year of the Reckoning and End Times arcs. (Let's kill off Baba Yaga! In Werewolf! And not allow the PCs to actually do anything! Just drag them from scene to scene as an NPC does everything! It'll be great! *BLEEP* that! )

 

New World of Darkness was... half of a good idea. But that half was not enough to keep the game alive.

 

What is it that makes a game company decide to do a new edition, then change everything so that it is not a new edition, but, rather, an entirely new game? With no real way to convert between the two systems?

 

It never works well, but it keeps happening.

 

Even Champions had that weird period where the old rules went to a new company, while Hero Games did that experiment with the Fusion rules - until they came to their senses and realized that the old game was still doing better than the new one.

 

Cyberpunk tried the same rules, with similar results.

 

World of Darkness.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.

D&D 4th edition.

Warhammer Fantasy Battle.

Champions.

Even RuneQuest - when Mongoose tried that weird system that was almost, but not quite, completely unlike the original rules.

 

Traveller... is a weird sort of exception - new editions keep happening, often with new versions of the setting.... (Strangely enough - it is the Steve Jackson GURPS version of Traveller that feels the most like the classic game. And I don't even like GURPS! (Except for Traveller....)) Sometimes they do okay, and sometimes they don't.

 

The Auld Grump

Edited by TheAuldGrump
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9 hours ago, Heisler said:

 

 True but all they did was publish a couple of games that were basically already in the printers hands and publish S&T till they could sell it off. They never reprinted any of the old SPI games or developed any new ones. Hasebro has done slightly better with AH but for all intents and purposes they are both gone. TSR at least still lives on in spirit as D&D continues to be published in one form or another.

 

TSR did republlsh a few SPI titles. I know that there was a second edition of Terrible Swift Sword (with pink hills), for instance. I think they did an edition of SPIES.. And I'm pretty sure they did a very few other games as well.

 

But in general, they just murdered the whole game line.

 

1 hour ago, Dr.Bedlam said:

Well, SPI was absorbed by TSR in payment for a bill. TSR loaned SPI money, and when they couldn't pay, that was it.

 

True as far as it goes, but it was (if my information is correct) much more cynical than that bald statement. The story, as I heard it from people involved, was that SPI went to TSR for a loan, TSR gave them a loan with the company as security, waited for them to spend the money, then called the loan. They also took only the IP, not the various obligations that SPI had incurred to its customers, other than to offer subscribers a coupon. From my understanding, the then principals of the company treated all business dealings (external and internal) as close kin to games of Diplomacy. The infighting was legendary.

 

It's perhaps worth noting that SPI was definitely not run by accountants. They were the biggest company in the adventure game industry at the time by both volume and gross profit, but they were losing about $0.08 on each game they sold and planning to "make it up with volume". It's unlikely that SPI could have pulled out of their death spiral at that late date, but TSR's actions were still pretty reprehensible.

 

And those actions colored my view of TSR from then until their long-overdue death.

 

Or perhaps longer. :angry:

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14 hours ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

TSR did republlsh a few SPI titles. I know that there was a second edition of Terrible Swift Sword (with pink hills), for instance. I think they did an edition of SPIES.. And I'm pretty sure they did a very few other games as well.

 

But in general, they just murdered the whole game line.

 

 

...snip

 

It's perhaps worth noting that SPI was definitely not run by accountants. They were the biggest company in the adventure game industry at the time by both volume and gross profit, but they were losing about $0.08 on each game they sold and planning to "make it up with volume". It's unlikely that SPI could have pulled out of their death spiral at that late date, but TSR's actions were still pretty reprehensible.

 

And those actions colored my view of TSR from then until their long-overdue death.

 

Or perhaps longer. :angry:

 

TSR only published the games that were already in the pipeline from SPI, which included Spies, Antietam, 2nd Edition TSS and a modern naval game who's title escapes me.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Heisler said:

 

TSR only published the games that were already in the pipeline from SPI, which included Spies, Antietam, 2nd Edition TSS and a modern naval game who's title escapes me.

 

 

 

Could be. Though TSS 2E wasn't published for 4 years after the takeover (1986), which would indicate to me that it was a bit more considered than just, "It's already done, so what the heck."

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11 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

Could be. Though TSS 2E wasn't published for 4 years after the takeover (1986), which would indicate to me that it was a bit more considered than just, "It's already done, so what the heck."

 

Actually it had a lot to do with just that!

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18 hours ago, Dr.Bedlam said:

It irks me that Avalon Hill's amazing catalog of excellent historical wargames isn't available, though. Just Betrayal At House On The Hill and a few others, to my knowledge. The age of counter and dice and hexboard is no more.

 

Advanced Squad Leader and a few other titles are now being printed by Multiman Publishing. 

 

As far as the era of counter, dice, and hex board being over, I'd say not quite, but it can't stay on life support forever . . .  I'd love to have an opponent or two around to play some of my games with.

 

The Egg

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11 minutes ago, Egg of Coot said:

 

Advanced Squad Leader and a few other titles are now being printed by Multiman Publishing. 

 

As far as the era of counter, dice, and hex board being over, I'd say not quite, but it can't stay on life support forever . . .  I'd love to have an opponent or two around to play some of my games with.

 

The Egg

There is a weekly ASL game going on at my FLGS.

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So, I saw this and as White wolf and World Of Darkness is my forte, and my love and I have to say I have been very pleased with all the stuff that Onyx has put out. I have backed a lot of the stuff and been very happy. Add in they have been getting some of the original white wolf stuff available for reprint through RPDRivethru has been fantastic.

 

Can't weigh in on the rest.

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44 minutes ago, Lady Tam said:

So, I saw this and as White wolf and World Of Darkness is my forte, and my love and I have to say I have been very pleased with all the stuff that Onyx has put out. I have backed a lot of the stuff and been very happy. Add in they have been getting some of the original white wolf stuff available for reprint through RPDRivethru has been fantastic.

 

That's good to hear!

 

(I'm newly involved in a (heavily modded 2nd ed.) WoD campaign that seems to be working out well.)

 

As for the upcoming stuff, I have every confidence and then some in Ken Hite's capabilities.

 

(We went to college together - not super close but we recognize each other on the street - and even then he was a gaming legend.)

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