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SamuraiJack

Robotech RPG Tactics - Palladium

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If anybody here did back this AND added anything in the pledge manager you may well be covered by your credit card, judgedoug posted this on Dakkadakka last night

 

 

 

 

"I am on with Discover right now and they will dispute the charges and attempt chargebacks.

They need evidence, does anyone have a screenshot or know where it was that Palladium said they would give Refunds if they could not fulfill Wave 2?

UPDATE: Discover has reversed the charges, credited my account, and are going after Palladium, Backerkit, and Kickstarter, based on what I told them. I am to provide documentation and screenshots in sufficient quantities and information to prove that Palladium initially complied with the TOU had offered refunds and then reversed their position in violation of the KS TOU.
Additionally, the Backerkit charge for add-ons is the easiest one to determine, as the charge is for products that were never received.
The initial Kickstarter/Palladium charge would require them to determine that Palladium/Siembieda had stated that refunds would be offered in support of the KS TOU, and then stated the reversal of position in violation of KS TOU.

I am asking if Discover wants all Discover card users who were affected, to contact them. I have been escalated to some sort of really high up fraud dept. I'll post again when I find out

 

The Discover agent has said to let any other Discover users know to also file a claim and they will use all the collected evidence to go after Palladium.

by the way, there is precedent for this: https://www.polygon.com/2015/9/11/9310945/kickstarter-court-victory-attorney-general-washington-asylum-playing-cards

"

 

and here are a couple of examples people have posted of palladium saying they will give refunds if they can't fulfil the project other people have posted in case anybody need them

9Uxg55w.jpg

PB_Comms.png

 

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Wow.  It will be interesting to see how that plays out.  Chargebacks usually have a $20-$35 fee associated with them to the merchant, and KS & Backerkit acted as a middleman for the transactions.  So if someone pledged $100 through the KS, and $50 through Backerkit, and those were both charged back, we're not just talking $150 cost to Palladium.  We're talking KS getting hit with $120-$135 and Backerkit getting hit with $70-85.   Which means Palladium would be on the hook to them for anywhere from $190 to $210 for that $150 - plus whatever fees KS adds to it themselves. 

If Palladium thought it was ugly before, this could get really ugly, really fast.  

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unless they seriously drop the prices for the exchanges, I'm just going to wash my hands of them and if I see something locally on the cheap I'll pick it up.  I only know of one store that actually stocked a couple of the unit boxes.

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44 minutes ago, Sergeant_Crunch said:

unless they seriously drop the prices for the exchanges, I'm just going to wash my hands of them and if I see something locally on the cheap I'll pick it up.  I only know of one store that actually stocked a couple of the unit boxes.

Are they charging full retail price for exchanges?

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No, they aren't charging retail price for the exchanges except for the con exclusives.  The price is generally close to the Kickstarter price.  The core box set price is more than the "sale" prices that they almost immediately had after release.

 

Ron

 

 

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1 hour ago, vutpakdi said:

No, they aren't charging retail price for the exchanges except for the con exclusives.  The price is generally close to the Kickstarter price.  The core box set price is more than the "sale" prices that they almost immediately had after release.

 

Ron

 

 

Wow, that's just rubbing it into the face of your Kickstarter backers then. Charging them more than sale prices for items that they will have to dispose of in 3 weeks time and then whacking them with a shipping cost on top of that (when shipping was originally included).

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I honestly hope that Palladium gets litigated into oblivion over this.

 

The way they handled this borders on criminal - if not stepping over that thin line.

 

The Auld Grump

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On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 7:12 PM, ced1106 said:

 

I've occasionally seen them on sale at CoolStuffInc / Cardhaus / Miniature Market. 

 

Or you could go dumpster diving at Gamestop...  :lol:

 

 

Burrrrrnnnn.  Oh, wow, that's rough to see.  The absolute indignity, it sums up this whole fiasco.

 

I didn't back this, but I got one of Ron's basic sets + extras when his Wave 1 arrived.  Sad thing is that the game had some potential.   The minis are a touch awkward, but most of the problem was with the Battlepods that needed to go together a certain way but had no part numbers or instructions.  Those later became available online, but initially it frustrated me out of interest and I eventually just stole the bases for other minis. 

 

But the truth is that for many, many years I was real thirsty for some Robotech miniatures.  If the kickstarter hadn't been such a bungled mess I think the game might have had a fair chance.  The minis were more work than necessary, but I could have lived with that. 

 

It's a damn pity it turned out this way.  Maybe I'll use the remaining baseless minis for dioramas, they wouldn't be the worst or fiddliest Macross models I've had. 

Edited by buglips*the*goblin
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My suspicion is that the breakdown went kind of like this:

 

Fumble 1 - PB deciding to go with a different manufacturer than the one Ninja Division recommended. (Most likely cheaper - but with no guarantee of quality.)

Result - Models of middling to poor quality, recreated  due to incompatibility with the 3D models created for the project. (They are not the only folks to make this mistake - Mantic had the infamous Basilean Men at Arms....)

 

Fumble 2 - Over producing Wave 1 in the hopes that sales of Wave 1 would cover the costs of producing Wave 2.

Result - Sales do not cover the costs of Wave 1, let alone Wave 2 - many end up being crushed unsold.

 

After that is the coverup for the fact that Wave 2 is never going to happen - for several years. With no one accepting responsibility.

 

They run the clock out, and offer a poor substitution for the undelivered product - but only if customers are willing to pay the shipping. (They knew the end of the license was coming - and that they had already spent the earmarked funds.)

 

While I do not believe that PB deliberately set out to commit fraud...  when they started covering their arses rather than working toward fixing the problem, that is indeed what they ended up doing.

 

The Auld Grump

Edited by TheAuldGrump
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I think fumble 2 is the biggest contributor, which is why they have so much unused stock now. If they'd just been honest about it from the beginning, they'd still have some angry backers, but no where near the vitriol they have generated for themselves. They've done so much damage to their brand I doubt they will ever recover.

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I kind of know someone that used to work for PB.

 

Nothing good to say about Kevin, who was one of those people that are more convinced they are in the right the more in the wrong they are.

 

Really, their sales are low enough that they would do better to focus on PDF publishing, with a PoD option.

 

But I am biased, I used to run the PoD press at BAM.

 

If sales are in the dozens or even hundreds, PoD is the better option.

 

If you are selling a thousand, THEN standard printing is better.

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Looks like someone else may have been grabbing at the license for a board game.  I know that Fantasy Flight Games co-existed with Hasbro in the Star Wars License because FFG was only doing miniature games, so this may have nothing to do with anything, but it seems more than a coincidence.  

 

https://www.japanimegames.com/posts/press-release-defend-the-universe-with-three-new-robotech-games

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I know that Harmony Gold USA holds the licensing rights to Robotech in the US, and that Palladium managed to work a deal with Harmony Gold, which is why they could publish Robotech stuff. Harmony Gold is remarkably prickly about ANYBODY using ANYTHING from Robotech, Macross, Southern Cross, or Genesis Climber Mospeada. They even attacked FASA for using licensed mech designs from Macross for the first generation of their Battletech game (which also got hit by Lucasfilms for using the name Battledroids; it's a wonder THAT game got off the ground at all...)

Wonder if Harmony Gold has any ideas for how to license and/or monetize the property for gaming purposes?

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22 hours ago, Unit04 said:

Looks like someone else may have been grabbing at the license for a board game.  I know that Fantasy Flight Games co-existed with Hasbro in the Star Wars License because FFG was only doing miniature games, so this may have nothing to do with anything, but it seems more than a coincidence.  

 

https://www.japanimegames.com/posts/press-release-defend-the-universe-with-three-new-robotech-games

 

"in partnership with Harmony Gold"

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2 hours ago, cmorse said:

 

"in partnership with Harmony Gold"

 

Ahhhh.

It becomes clear.

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