Serpine

Fulfilling
CSM's Tome of Horrors Complete

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The real problem is that $200 pledge level is, yet again, putting way too much faith in smashing down tons of stretch goals. Unless this project gets an extra 12+ models unlocked from stretch goals, that level is a complete waste. I was hoping Matt would have learned to put less faith in the stretch goals when designing his project, maybe listen to the myriad of people who said to try and copy Stonehaven's structure (At least, I think people were telling him to do that... If they weren't, they should have :lol:)

Truthfully, the same could have been said about the Vampire level given that it originally had the same rewards as the $60 level. I'm not saying that anyone should buy it now, but being able to increase pledges once the deal gets better is one of the benefits of KS.

 

And really, there's no significant difference between this setup and the stonehaven before the first set of stretches were unlocked. You have a cheaper level that gets everything that's unlocked and a more expensive one that gets those + several that aren't unlocked yet. That is exactly how stonehaven started out. The only real difference is that this one doesn't have a built in cap - but neither did stonehaven when they did the dwarves. The original "one of everything" pledge was exactly that until they realized they were losing money and needed to start coming up with synonyms for "stretch goal".

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So...a glance at CSM's website (not an exhaustive search by any stretch) shows only two of the minis from the Demons and Devils KS available for purchase now. Most of the sculpts from that KS are either not my cup of tea or not something I need, so I didn't back...but the Marilith and the Nalfeshnee would be nice (I always want more of the former, and I've never seen a mini of the latter). Is there any word on that from them? And if not, what did the KS actually do for them (not actually excited about helping someone produce a bunch of completely limited edition sculpts).

 

Also not interested in the high buy-in for this one, and very underwhelmed by the concept art.

My. Thoughts. Precisely.

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The real problem is that $200 pledge level is, yet again, putting way too much faith in smashing down tons of stretch goals. Unless this project gets an extra 12+ models unlocked from stretch goals, that level is a complete waste. I was hoping Matt would have learned to put less faith in the stretch goals when designing his project, maybe listen to the myriad of people who said to try and copy Stonehaven's structure (At least, I think people were telling him to do that... If they weren't, they should have :lol:)

Truthfully, the same could have been said about the Vampire level given that it originally had the same rewards as the $60 level. I'm not saying that anyone should buy it now, but being able to increase pledges once the deal gets better is one of the benefits of KS.

 

And really, there's no significant difference between this setup and the stonehaven before the first set of stretches were unlocked. You have a cheaper level that gets everything that's unlocked and a more expensive one that gets those + several that aren't unlocked yet. That is exactly how stonehaven started out. The only real difference is that this one doesn't have a built in cap - but neither did stonehaven when they did the dwarves. The original "one of everything" pledge was exactly that until they realized they were losing money and needed to start coming up with synonyms for "stretch goal".

While true, an extra $100 is a huge psychological block. That is definitely a significant amount of money to a lot of gamers. Sometimes it's not about the logic, but the psychology of the thing. $40 to get everything that is unlocked in a future on top of a valuable $60 pledge is a huge difference from $100 on top of a $100 pledge level.

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I'm not really feeling this one either, for several reasons. The art is hit or miss for me, the "sweet spot" is too high, and I'm probably being influenced by the delays on the Demons and Devils project (in addition to this being the 2nd KS that CSM's been part of since that project). To be fair, even if Demons and Devils had fulfilled by now, I still might not be interested enough in this one to back it, but that piece of the puzzle made the decision very easy.

 

~v

Edited by Shakandara
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Truthfully, the same could have been said about the Vampire level given that it originally had the same rewards as the $60 level. I'm not saying that anyone should buy it now, but being able to increase pledges once the deal gets better is one of the benefits of KS.

 

 

The Vampire level had the Sophie which the $60 level didn't. Also with the pace it went the Vampire level already had a few extra things in it before the first day was over.

It's a risky pledge level to put out from the start, if you fly past the goals and it get it's value it looks perfectly fine and there's no reason for anyone to question it. If the project stalls a bit and the Pledge Level is based on more than the project can offer it becomes a bit of a bugbear for the project...... as in a cause of irritation, not the other kind.

 

Torn World suffered from that which is why some of CSM's giants which didn't fit the style of the rest of the project we're added in to try and make the level still enticing so backers wouldn't drop it.

Edited by Nocturne
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Yeah, Torn World could have done so much better had it be properly constructed. I feel like the way he built the pledge levels was what ultimately caused that project to miss out on a ton of unlock opportunities. Still, I'm happy that Red was unlocked at least because I need that mini more than I can really understand.

Edited by recruittons

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Im waiting to see some greens. Only a few of the artwork pictures are of any interest to me. $200 is too much for me right now, I might have a low pledge and cherry-pick what I want. Why do you have to go in for $200 to get the PDF? That should be an add-on or something.

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I do want to see what they do with the Jaculi. Not that bothered about the rest personally but there's something about that snake I just like.

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I do want to see what they do with the Jaculi. Not that bothered about the rest personally but there's something about that snake I just like.

Yes! That is definitely one I'm really loving the concept for. That and the Movanic Deva are the only ones really on my radar.

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My favorites so far are...

Eye Killer: bat-snake! hope its medium sized or bigger

Jaculi: looks really cool.

Death Dog: more odd dogs the better.

Babbler: depending on the sculpt it could be nice, might be interesting to play game-wise, just judging by its name (don't know its stats).

Salt Dragon: only If it is a desert dwelling dragon, I always need more desert monsters. I don't know its stat block.

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According to the webs, Salt Drakes are desert/salt flat dwelling beasties. They have a salt breath weapon that deals slashing damage and dehydrates opponents for 1 Con damage. Sounds pretty cool.

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The pictures aren't concept art for mini poses, they're just the illustrations that were in the monster book. I imagine that some concept art will start to emerge as the days pass. I actually think this is going to be a pretty big one. Matt is well known, and Tome of Horrors is mega-name-brand. The only downside is that he has three Kickstarters all at one time, which is a lot of work. Nevertheless, I wouldn't be shocked if this one topped a million in sales. Mildly surprised, but not shocked.

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Im waiting to see some greens.

 

The pictures aren't concept art for mini poses, they're just the illustrations that were in the monster book.

 

From the FAQ on the project:

 

"We've already commissioned six of the initial miniatures for this KS and will commission the rest the MINUTE our funding goal is met. The concepts show you the artwork that each miniature is based on, so look for something very similar. It is our hope to have at least a half dozen greens to show before the Kickstarter itself ends"

 

This makes it sound like the minis will be based on that art, not new concept art. Further, it looks like there won't be much in the way of greens to look at by the close of the project. Backers will be going mostly on blind faith.

 

~v

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Matt is well known, and Tome of Horrors is mega-name-brand. The only downside is that he has three Kickstarters all at one time, which is a lot of work. Nevertheless, I wouldn't be shocked if this one topped a million in sales. Mildly surprised, but not shocked.

 

I don't think either of those things are true; Matt is not that well know, *unless* you backed one of the two previous projects (I don't consider <500 backers combined as "well known"). And Tome of Horrors is not anywhere close to mega-brand-name (unlike Tomb of Horrors).

 

I don't think there is enough grass-roots for either company, nor enough mass-appeal in the project, to fund that kind of explosive growth. I'll be shocked if it makes it to a quarter of a million.

 

~v

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The real problem is that $200 pledge level is, yet again, putting way too much faith in smashing down tons of stretch goals. Unless this project gets an extra 12+ models unlocked from stretch goals, that level is a complete waste. I was hoping Matt would have learned to put less faith in the stretch goals when designing his project, maybe listen to the myriad of people who said to try and copy Stonehaven's structure (At least, I think people were telling him to do that... If they weren't, they should have :lol:)

Truthfully, the same could have been said about the Vampire level given that it originally had the same rewards as the $60 level. I'm not saying that anyone should buy it now, but being able to increase pledges once the deal gets better is one of the benefits of KS.

 

And really, there's no significant difference between this setup and the stonehaven before the first set of stretches were unlocked. You have a cheaper level that gets everything that's unlocked and a more expensive one that gets those + several that aren't unlocked yet. That is exactly how stonehaven started out. The only real difference is that this one doesn't have a built in cap - but neither did stonehaven when they did the dwarves. The original "one of everything" pledge was exactly that until they realized they were losing money and needed to start coming up with synonyms for "stretch goal".

While true, an extra $100 is a huge psychological block. That is definitely a significant amount of money to a lot of gamers. Sometimes it's not about the logic, but the psychology of the thing. $40 to get everything that is unlocked in a future on top of a valuable $60 pledge is a huge difference from $100 on top of a $100 pledge level.

But, then, there is already one where you got half as many for $50, then double that+1 for $100 (very similar to the way you could buy just one of the original stonehaven gnome sets even before stretches were unlocked), then another higher level above that for $200.

 

I am not seeing this big difference. It's basically identical barring some weird number superstition when you hit that third digit.

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