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Deadeye_Jake

Avoiding First Strike/Pike

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Just wanted to make sure my reasoning is sound...

 

If you get into BtB with a model that has First Strike/Pike but don't attack it (either because it took your entire move+charge to get there or you voluntarily forgo immediately attacking) does the "defending" model still get to take their First Strike/Pike attack?

 

My belief is that the "defending" model does not get to take their special attack for the duration of that combat.

 

Unless there is a rule somewhere that I missed, that seems a pretty sound tactic in certain circumstances. Say a mob of 1 DT Bloodstone Gnomes charge into some Razig Bone Marines or an Onyx Phalanx line.

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If the model being based is not attacked it does not get defensive strikes. First Strike and Pike do not change that.

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So you charge into b-2-b and stop... and the other guy hits you on his next activation?

If you do that to a troop that has already activated, and win initiative, then you deny him the Pike SA, but it's a risk. There are plenty of times in Warlord where you will move to just base a model.

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If you do that to a troop that has already activated, and win initiative, then you deny him the Pike SA, but it's a risk. There are plenty of times in Warlord where you will move to just base a model.

 

This. It is a risk-reward calculation, but a valid tactic.

 

~v

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I guess my concern was mostly with the Pike SA. First Strike SA pretty clearly states that you would not get your First Strike attack if the charger didn't conduct any attacks that round.

 

However, Pike SA states: "A model with this SA may make a single Defensive First Strike with one of its Defensive Strikes against any model that Charged it this Activation".

 

Although it seems to mirror First Strike, Pike SA states it gets to be used against any model that Charged it (as opposed to attacked it). Now reason would seem to dictate that if you don't get any Defensive Strikes, then you couldn't use them to Pike. My intent in the original post was to make sure I wasn't missing something that would allow a Pike SA model to get a freebie attack if it got Charged even though the charger didn't swing.

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So you charge into b-2-b and stop... and the other guy hits you on his next activation?

If you do that to a troop that has already activated, and win initiative, then you deny him the Pike SA, but it's a risk. There are plenty of times in Warlord where you will move to just base a model.

 

 

Yeah, unless you have Rage or Shock SA or something similar, you don't really lose anything by letting the opposing First Strike/Pike model attack first, later on, when they won't benefit from those SAs. In a lot of instances, I see the reward far outweighing the risk.

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However, Pike SA states: "A model with this SA may make a single Defensive First Strike with one of its Defensive Strikes against any model that Charged it this Activation".

 

Your quoted section answers the question. You don't Defensive Strikes unless you are attacked; this is why it is important to declare all attacks (and all defensive strikes) that are part of a given Fight action before you start rolling any dice.

 

~v

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Two things often make this a valid tactic:

 

  1. From the Tough SA: “If the Tough model is destroyed by First Strike attacks (the first attack by models with the First Strike SA or the Pike SA), it does not get to make this roll and is instead destroyed.”
  2. If the model charging the First Strike/Pike model has only one damage track, using this tactic means it will at least get a defensive strike in a later turn.

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I have this mental image of a model with tough charging towards the line of pikes, stopping when he gets there and lighting a smoke.

Yes. There are some things wonky about the mechanics of Warlord, as in many other games.

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Well that's the "game" part. Nothing wrong with that, but I'd be tempted to houserule it out, myself. However, then you'd potentially get another odd interaction with Tough and First Strike, right?

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