Glitterwolf

Knightly Orders Livery Crusades?

21 posts in this topic

Hi,

 

Maybe someone can help me a bit. I ordered this bust. It will take a while before I paint it, bit already I'm considering possibilities.

 

He is sold as a Teutonic Knight, I love the yellow/black cross with the eagle, but am not sure if I can pull it off.

Considering the colours shown I want to ask :

 

1. Is it viable to paint the cape brown instead of white?

2. The red Innerhelmet..Would that be metal or leather?

 

And my most important question

3.

 

I know of the Knights Templar, White Livery with Red Cross, The Hospitallers , Black with white Cross and sometimes Red with white cross.

But could I choose any of these colours?

I was wondering if the helmet he's holding is a distinctive Teutonic one or if the other orders wore these too.

 

I tried googling and am a history fan.

But I'm not sure about this.

 

Any thoughts from the people who are more into this period?

 

 

 

 

RH-001-a3-def_zps6cvoqpkz.jpg

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the red inner helmet is probably similar to an arming cap which was thick cloth/padding to my knowledge.  primarily meant to keep hair from getting stuck in mail and to pad the head.  my guess in this case is leather.

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the red inner helmet is probably similar to an arming cap which was thick cloth/padding to my knowledge.  primarily meant to keep hair from getting stuck in mail and to pad the head.  my guess in this case is leather.

 

Thx I was thinking that but wasn't sure..so any leather colour will do there.

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He's a cool bust, you can easily pull off that freehand, practice on a piece of scratch paper a few times. It's just straight lines.

 

Cape... I'd go with something other than brown myself, maybe grey or blue or red, match it up with the colors you decide to do with the cross on his chest. 

 

History of them, I'm not sure, I'd do some Google searches on their history to find out what is what if I wanted it to be accurate, but I'm more of a fantasy buff so I go with what I think looks cool/good rather than real.

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Is he billed as a knight from the crusades? If so that helmet is not even close to being correct. That's more of jousting helmet than the great helm worn during the crusades. The head cap is definitely leather not steel. Who manufactures this bust?

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Is he billed as a knight from the crusades? If so that helmet is not even close to being correct. That's more of jousting helmet than the great helm worn during the crusades. The head cap is definitely leather not steel. Who manufactures this bust?

 

to me, the helm looks like what is called a "sugarloaf" helm, a relative of the crusader great helm but later historically.  a bit after the crusades era as far as I know.  the presumable red leather horns I have no clue about historcal accuracy.

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My before internet** remembry is:

  1. **Templars Black Tunic: White cross
  2. Teutonics: White Tunic; Black cross
  3. **Hospitalers: White Tunic; Red cross — (they are the inspiration/ancestor for the red cross logo)
  4. Knights of Malta: Red Tunic; White cross — of a particular type known as the Maltese Cross.

 

Is the small escutcheon with the eagle or the two crosses molded on?

Or is his tunic a blank slate you could do whatever with?

 

@Heisler: OP says he is billed as a Teutonic Knight? 'Christian' kniggets vrs. Pagan Lithuanians...outer helmet looks like a Germanic parade/tourney helm. Sugarloaf is the term, and the Teutonic knights did most of their crusading after it was all over in Outremer.

Edited by TGP
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Is he billed as a knight from the crusades? If so that helmet is not even close to being correct. That's more of jousting helmet than the great helm worn during the crusades. The head cap is definitely leather not steel. Who manufactures this bust?

He's available at El Greco's website.

 

l_rh-001%20poster%20(345x450).jpg

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**The internet says I have the Templars and Hospitalers mixed up.

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My before internet** remembry is:

  1. **Templars Black Tunic: White cross
  2. Teutonics: White Tunic; Black cross
  3. **Hospitalers: White Tunic; Red cross — (they are the inspiration/ancestor for the red cross logo)
  4. Knights of Malta: Red Tunic; White cross — of a particular type known as the Maltese Cross.

 

Is the small escutcheon with the eagle or the two crosses molded on?

Or is his tunic a blank slate you could do whatever with?

 

@Heisler: OP says he is billed as a Teutonic Knight? 'Christian' kniggets vrs. Pagan Lithuanians...outer helmet looks like a Germanic parade/tourney helm. Sugarloaf is the term, and the Teutonic knights did most of their crusading after it was all over in Outremer.

 

Agreed. The box he comes in says XIV century so definitely a parade/tourney helm rather than one for combat. Its possible the horns are removable for combat.

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one of the keys here is 14th century.  the helm itself is good for that era from what I found.

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Is he billed as a knight from the crusades? If so that helmet is not even close to being correct. That's more of jousting helmet than the great helm worn during the crusades. The head cap is definitely leather not steel. Who manufactures this bust?

 

Why do you think it is definitely leather? It looks like a German style bascinet, which were sometimes worn under great helms (though a cervellerie would be more common).

 

Damon.

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Is he billed as a knight from the crusades? If so that helmet is not even close to being correct. That's more of jousting helmet than the great helm worn during the crusades. The head cap is definitely leather not steel. Who manufactures this bust?

 

Why do you think it is definitely leather? It looks like a German style bascinet, which were sometimes worn under great helms (though a cervellerie would be more common).

 

Damon.

 

I am inclined to go with leather because a metal bascinet would have some sort of rivet pattern.

bascinet_2a.jpg

Edited by TGP
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Thank you all for the input.

Appreciate it.

 

The bust is being sent to me, as far as I know the tunic is a blanc slate. Not molded on.

The cross might be just lines, but the emblem is an eagle and I'm not sure if i can make that believable.

So  hence the idea of putting him in a different order.

 

And I was indeed wondering if it would be plausible if he wore a brown cape or something "not the same as the tunic"

Is he billed as a knight from the crusades? If so that helmet is not even close to being correct. That's more of jousting helmet than the great helm worn during the crusades. The head cap is definitely leather not steel. Who manufactures this bust?

 

Ub3r showed the right pic. He's supposed to be a Teutonic Knight.

They sometimes wore these elaborate helmets with horns, not sure if they actually wore them in combat.

 

Manufacturer is Ruota del Tempo, I got him from El Greco, they sell all kinds of busts and large scale stuff.

 

 

 

 

Is he billed as a knight from the crusades? If so that helmet is not even close to being correct. That's more of jousting helmet than the great helm worn during the crusades. The head cap is definitely leather not steel. Who manufactures this bust?

 

Why do you think it is definitely leather? It looks like a German style bascinet, which were sometimes worn under great helms (though a cervellerie would be more common).

 

Damon.

 

I am inclined to go with leather because a metal bascinet would have some sort of rivet pattern.

bascinet_2a.jpg

 

 

This is why I have doubts. I hope it is leather.. but I think I noticed 1 rivet/stud. On the bottom side of the helmet.

But that is just 1..

When I receive the bust I can say more about that.

 

Also if this guy is historical acurate I will paint him up as a Knightly order, If he's all wrong..then he will become a Fantasy Knight. But I prefer to make him a "real" Knight.

 

There is another version of this guy without the horsehead, holding a sword.

On that box art the horns are painted differently in a checkerd pattern, I thought the Teutonic Knights kept the horns dark.

 

Could he be meant as a Grandmeister or another high ranking member, having this fancy helmet?

 

I will read up more on these guys, but Iḿ very grateful for any input from the people who know more about this stuff.

I'm very much into history but the Knightly Orders are not my expertise.

 

So thanks again for any input.

And I'm open to ideas and suggestions about how to tackle this guy.

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