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Knight of the Dinner Table

Gloomhaven (Second Printing)

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Aside from the cooperative dungeoncrawl concept, the games aren't the same. GH is a hand-management game similar to Mage Knight and the focus is on the characters. The only gameplay is the dungeoncrawl where you kill and loot. KD:M has its dungeoncrawl boss phase, the hunt, which is more like Talisman's drawing an encounter card, and the settlement phase. GH has a deck for each character, while KDM has it's gear combo's. GH's stickers have workarounds, such as a resetable interactive PDF map, and card sleeves for the card stickers. Both *do* demand time, so it's up to your group to tell you which game they would prefer to play. GH will also be available retail at about the same price as the KS, so there's no FOMO.

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Did they ever mention what gloomhaven would be priced at in retail? I'm a bit light on cash currently and really wondering if I could spare a 100.

Edited by Ellusionist

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I'm reading it'll be $120 MSRP, but I haven't found anything definitive yet, and expect the boardgame to be on sale and discount at the OLGS.

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I doubt it will be much more expensive (though I've heard about $140 MSRP) and there are no "free" stretch goals nor Kickstarter exclusives.


But ... after the first Kickstarter, there were not enough games left to satisfy the retail demand. That's what this Kickstarter is about: produce a second "edition" in numbers high enough to satisfy the demand (and also have enough left to go retail). I have no idea how available the game will be in retail. There was one retailer on BGG complaining about the second Kickstarter saying that the game now is no longer worthwhile for retailers (lots of people get it from Kickstarter at a price retailers cannot compete with).

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Yeah, they have communicated 140 to retailers.  They really are polarizing the retailers with this Kickstarter.

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That's true.  Some of the retailers are really irked by the reprint Kickstarter for Gloomhaven- especially since the game looked like it would become a shining example of a game that worked well in Kickstarter and at Retail (no exclusives, the gameplay was so well liked by fans that word and demand spread quickly).

 

 

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6 minutes ago, odinsgrandson said:

That's true.  Some of the retailers are really irked by the reprint Kickstarter for Gloomhaven- especially since the game looked like it would become a shining example of a game that worked well in Kickstarter and at Retail (no exclusives, the gameplay was so well liked by fans that word and demand spread quickly).

 

 

 

Well, if my FLGS hadn't put their one copy up at $200 with a random draw as to who would be 'allowed' to buy it at such a high price, I might not have backed the kickstarter. 

 

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Well, that makes perfect sense.

 

Since I gave the one side, here's the flip side argument.  It isn't like it is the duty of Cephalorfair or any other game maker to prop up the FLGS business model when they have a different one working for them.

 

I'm all in favor of supporting an LGS if you're getting something in return for your support (playspace, good service or whatever).  But I'm honestly against the attitude that I owe someone something just because he has a store in my town.

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51 minutes ago, John Fiala said:

 

Well, if my FLGS hadn't put their one copy up at $200 with a random draw as to who would be 'allowed' to buy it at such a high price, I might not have backed the kickstarter. 

 

 

Yes you would have. With one copy at the correct price and no lottery it's unlikely you would have had a chance to buy it at all or even seen that they ever had a copy.

 

Though I can't imagine upping the price helped encourage customer's to shop there as much in the future.

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15 minutes ago, cmorse said:

 

Yes you would have. With one copy at the correct price and no lottery it's unlikely you would have had a chance to buy it at all or even seen that they ever had a copy.

 

Though I can't imagine upping the price helped encourage customer's to shop there as much in the future.

 

I disagree.  If I hadn't seen that, I'd be more willing to wait for the game to come up through the distribution system and pick it up later at Wizard's Chest or Black and Read. I understand stores not being able to give discounts as online stores do, but I stop hard on having to pay a penalty to buy it from a local store.

 

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Met too, but there is no reason to go with the FLGs.  The have competely shut them out.  They are offering the game at a tiny bit above cost, free shipping, and then saying retail will be $140.  What they are doing makes no sense.

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Makes good sense to me, since I don't have good FLGS options without driving an hour to a store that's mostly GW/MtG and might stock one copy of Gloomhaven. I simply don't want to give them money, I don't like their business model (though I understand it).  I'd be happier if I could use the power of the Internet to buy directly from the manufacturers without paying a 'we daren't oppress the FLGS' tax, that's punitive to everyone not lucky enough to have a nearby FLGS worth patronizing.

 

We did have a gaming shop open in the next city over recently, but it's a couple folding tables and a couple boxes of MtG on a shelf. I won't even walk through the doors, because the last outfit that tried that were disgusting, with an unclean carpet of crumbs, soda stains and bags of garbage in the corner.

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there are good and bad points to both arguments.  It sounds to me like they didn't get enough out of the last kickstarter to make enough in a production run to stock retailers.  the first run looks like they sold pretty much exactly one print run at just enough money to design and produce the game; sort of a concept run.  Since a typical print run is 5000, they really didn't have too much left over for retail and they really didn't make enough to afford a second print run for retail.  Pretty much a catch 22. 

 

They did find out that their game was popular and that if they produced it they could sell a large number of copies, so they upped the cost of the offering to give them some profit margin, and made a second offering and I am willing to bet that they will be able to make an additional print run or two to stock retailers with.  Contrary to popular belief, most of the world, gamers included, does not participate in kickstarters (I know, weird.  Why wouldn't they want to spend money on something they might not get?) so there should be plenty of market share left for the retailers and everybody goes home happy except for the people who are trying to milk the product by scalping it.

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Thanks for the reply.  The idea of a Legacy game where you "have" to tear up a card or deface the board in some way is a new one to me.  I suppose the idea is that this "permanent" decision affects how it feels to play the game.  But I don't get it personally.  I suppose you have to try it to know what it's like.

 

I was hesitant with Risk Legacy but once you try it; the aspect of discovery makes you WANT to change the state of the game so you can unlock new secrets.  I'm a person that likes to keep things pristine as possible and takes very good care of my stuff, but I love Legacy games now.  I'm in!

Edited by animesensei
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On 4/20/2017 at 10:44 AM, skippen said:

Met too, but there is no reason to go with the FLGs.  The have competely shut them out.  They are offering the game at a tiny bit above cost, free shipping, and then saying retail will be $140.  What they are doing makes no sense.

 

It makes perfect sense. A FLGS will move three boxes of Magic, Star Wars Destiny, or other *much* less expensive games much faster than a $140 boxed game. Also, retailers and distributors are used to a system where they receive 40% or more off, and don't have to place an order until the product is shipping. Not all creators on KS have the cash flow of multiple games on the market to take on the risk of printing stock that won't sell. If the choice is between a creator of a popular game mortgaging their house so retailers can carry the game or buying the game directly, I'll pick the latter.

 

Also, FFG stopped making $100 coffin boxes *years* ago, although RuneWars Miniatures have a price tag of $100 MSRP. Any retailer will tell the game designer that they will have to break down a $140 into a base game and several expansions, with no guarantee that the expansions will be sold at a later date. What *will* happen is that the total cost of the same amount of content will be higher. Dunno about you, but I like to pay less money for my games.

 

As for legacy, the creator himself doesn't call it a legacy game. It's only legacy to the point where you're placing stickers on a map, and stickers on cards. On BGG, you'll find an interactive PDF so you don't need to put stickers on the map. For the cards, gamers have been sleeving the cards and putting stickers on the cards, as well as mentioning that it's sometimes better not to pay for the upgrades that sticker the card in the first place. Other workarounds are on the BGG GH forums.

Edited by ced1106

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