GodOfCheese

The Sorrow of Sealant

25 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, GodOfCheese said:

Update: I shook the sealant aggressively, then let it sit before applying another coat to part of the mini.  Painting on more sealant seemed to solve the problem-- I suspect that it rehydrates the substance and scatters the sediment. But when that coat dried, the sediment became visible again. 

 

It's a metal mini. Is there a way to strip the sealant without stripping the paint along with it? 

 

Most things that will strip the varnish will also strip the paint, but carefully, and gently, trying Inarah's suggestion with a mild solvent might work. Just go slow, and focus on the problem areas.

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Matte sealer is matte because of little particles in the solution that scatter the light. You need to shake it, really well, and then shake it some more. You also need to do this every time you use the bottle. If you don't do it consistently, you can end up with a situation where there's a higher concentration of particles in the last 1/3 of the bottle, and you'll get frosting as happened here.

I think OneBoot is correct, you had a concentration of the matting agent in the nozzle of your bottle due to it being stored nose down. I have found nose down storage to work poorly with particle based substances. (I had a similar problem with some Secret Weapon washes.) Even if you shake them, the nozzle end of the bottle is  smaller so it's easy for liquid to get trapped there and not circulated back into the mix when shaken. I store my brush on primer and sealer bottles on their sides in a drawer and that seems to work pretty well. (But still you need to shake, shake, shake!)

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Shaking it won't get it properly mixed if the sediment is in the tip--there's an agitator bead in the bottle but it is designed to not fit into the tip so as to not clog.

 

And nice avatar pic. ^_^

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Is matte additive the same as a matte sealer?  Or would it work added to a sealer?  I have not played with this additive yet - it came in a triad if additives I ordered a while back thinking there would be some use for everything.

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2 hours ago, InvisibleThumb said:

Is matte additive the same as a matte sealer?  Or would it work added to a sealer?  I have not played with this additive yet - it came in a triad if additives I ordered a while back thinking there would be some use for everything.

Matte additive is not intended to be used straight.  If you did that, it would frost up whatever you put it on.  I believe its primary purpose is to add it to paints that look glossy to make them more matte.  I've never used it, but the general warning is to use a very small amount and test it to make sure you haven't put in too much.  While I've never tried it, I would guess you could add it to a gloss medium or varnish to make it matte.  

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, InvisibleThumb said:

Is matte additive the same as a matte sealer?  Or would it work added to a sealer?  I have not played with this additive yet - it came in a triad if additives I ordered a while back thinking there would be some use for everything.

 

The two aren't the same. For instance, painters often add Reaper sealer to a paint that's a bit chalky. It can often help to make the paint less chalky (I've done this several times and it usually works).

 

Reaper anti-shine additive (matte additive) will have the opposite effect. If you add too much, even a non-chalky paint will get chalky. Used properly, anti-shine additive will make a shiny paint dead flat, but only a tiny bit is needed. It's super concentrated matting agent that's WAY more powerful than anything else I've used. 

 

Honestly, I only recently got my hands on Reaper matte additive. I put a tiny drop of it into a few drops of water with a drop of flow improver (because the anti-shine additive is quite thick). I use that mix to thin any paint that's glossier than I like. 

 

Now, I have used Reaper sealer to help get a nice thin glaze with P3 Menoth White Highlight. It's a good color, but doesn't always thin well for skin highlights. The sealer helped, but it made the paint dry much quicker on the wet palette. It would get a little gummy after a while. That hasn't happened when using the anti-shine additive.

 

They really are quite different. I've read that if you try to use anti-shine additive to seal a mini it will completely frost the mini. The only other similar product I have is Vallejo matte medium and I haven't tried using it as a sealer. I use matte medium to make paint more matte, and use matte sealer to seal minis or make chalky paints less chalky.

 

Edited by CorallineAlgae
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5 hours ago, Serenity said:

Matte additive is not intended to be used straight.  If you did that, it would frost up whatever you put it on.  I believe its primary purpose is to add it to paints that look glossy to make them more matte.  I've never used it, but the general warning is to use a very small amount and test it to make sure you haven't put in too much.  While I've never tried it, I would guess you could add it to a gloss medium or varnish to make it matte.  

Thanks for the info - I may experiment with the anti-shine and sealer combo on a sacrificial mini just to see what happens.

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4 hours ago, CorallineAlgae said:

 

The two aren't the same. For instance, painters often add Reaper sealer to a paint that's a bit chalky. It can often help to make the paint less chalky (I've done this several times and it usually works).

 

Reaper anti-shine additive (matte additive) will have the opposite effect. If you add too much, even a non-chalky paint will get chalky. Used properly, anti-shine additive will make a shiny paint dead flat, but only a tiny bit is needed. It's super concentrated matting agent that's WAY more powerful than anything else I've used. 

 

Honestly, I only recently got my hands on Reaper matte additive. I put a tiny drop of it into a few drops of water with a drop of flow improver (because the anti-shine additive is quite thick). I use that mix to thin any paint that's glossier than I like. 

 

Now, I have used Reaper sealer to help get a nice thin glaze with P3 Menoth White Highlight. It's a good color, but doesn't always thin well for skin highlights. The sealer helped, but it made the paint dry much quicker on the wet palette. It would get a little gummy after a while. That hasn't happened when using the anti-shine additive.

 

They really are quite different. I've read that if you try to use anti-shine additive to seal a mini it will completely frost the mini. The only other similar product I have is Vallejo matte medium and I haven't tried using it as a sealer. I use matte medium to make paint more matte, and use matte sealer to seal minis or make chalky paints less chalky.

 

That's helpful to know, thanks CorallineAlgae.  I need to start paying more attention to which paints are shinier so I can try this one out.  Problem is I mix paints pretty frequently and have not been good about tracking what I've used.  Time to invest in a painting journal I guess.  Sorry for the thread hijack there.

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Matte additive is a larger concentration of the matting agent particles that are in the brush-on sealer to make it matte (or satin straight out of the bottle). It's provided as a stand-alone product so people can matte down shiny paints. It might also work to matte down a shiny sealer, but I'd go cautiously adding just a little bit at a time and testing, because previous commenters are correct - this is the element that causes chalkiness and streaks. Straight out of the bottle it is just pretty much frost, and I've used it that way on a winter diorama. You can move it around some when it's rewetted, I don't know if you could completely remove it with a wet brush, though. It has none of the protective properties of a sealer.

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I frequently add a small amount of matt additive to my brush-on sealer.  It does help, but, as others have noted, you need to take care not to add too much.  I thin my sealer a lot when I apply it, and use several coats.

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