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Spacefrog

Too thin paints

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I have had this problem with some paints for a while.
Some paints I get hold of are simply too thin to work with,  they just flow off any primer and/or basecoat I use, like ink on a varnish.
I have tried several different brands Reaper, vallejo and even some army painter colors, who actually use a one coat policy.

Is there something I can mix into the paint to make it flow better, so that I can actually get some paint onto my models?

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Please give a little more information.  Are these paints straight from the bottle, unthinned?  Were they well mixed beforehand?

 

What primer or basecoats are you using, and on what sort of surface (PVC plastic, pewter, resin, etc.)?

 

If you are having problems with multiple brands failing to adhere, is it possible that the problem may not be not in the paints themselves but in some property of the primer or basecoat under them?

 

 

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I agree with Pingo. More info (and pics) needed!

 

A few general tips:

- Always wash your models prior to priming. I use warm soapy water and a soft bristled toothbrush. 

 

- Primers can be spray primers or brush on. Allow up to 24 hours to fully cure depending on your environment. Humid areas take up to that 24 hours and dry areas are much faster. 

 

-Always make sure to shake up your paints, a good 15-30 seconds before use as this allows the medium and pigments to mix back together. 

 

-Apply your paint with a damp brush in thin even coats, I wipe excess paint off on a damp sponge or paper towel or coffee filter. Applying too much will make it run and/or pool. 

 

-The more you thin your paint with a flow improver and/or H2O, the more excess you'll have to wick from your brush to get a nice smooth paint release. 

 

-I highly recommend using GOOD brushes for painting, I'm talking the Kolinsky Sable brushes from companies like Winsor & Newton (Series 7), Rosemary & Co.(Series 33), Raphael (8404), or Di Vinci. Rosemary & Co. is much less expensive than the other 3 at about $5 per brush the others (around $15-18/brush) are a bit higher quality and will last a little longer with good brush care. 

 

-Always take care of your brushes. Use pink soap (that's the name) and/or Mastersons Brush Soap. I use pink soap daily, adding a tad bit into a water rise cup and then use a second cup of only water. Give a swirl or two in the soap/water cup and another in the water cup between paint colors. If I notice any build up, I use the Mastrrsons and try to use it 1-2x per week regardless. Even use a little bit after you're done to condition the brush and form a point before storing the brush. 

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It sounds a little bit like using paint straight from the bottle without shaking/mixing it.

That way you get thin paint at the start and leave the thicker stuff at the end of the bottle.

 

Mix well!!!!

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Mixing well might be the problem.

 

Also, use underpaints. Frex, with orcs, I start with a black primer, then a brown with good coverage (Army Painter's Werewolf Fur), then a dark green, then a light green. Then I hit it with a wash. 

 

That *reads* like more work than the words "apply basecoat", but each layer does less work than multiple coats on black for a basecoat.

 

You can also greyscale the miniature, by painting over black in grey and white, since white is often a color with good coverage.

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2 hours ago, Xherman1964 said:

It sounds a little bit like using paint straight from the bottle without shaking/mixing it.

That way you get thin paint at the start and leave the thicker stuff at the end of the bottle.

 

Mix well!!!!

Agreed.  My first thought was the clear liquid that can rise and hang out up in the dropper bottle tips.

 

Without further information I'd speculate that you could either be going over a material with mold release still on it (looking at you Bones) or you are applying over an under-cured oil/solvent-based primer.

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Do ALL of your colors run off the miniature like they're ink, or just some?

If everything behaves "too thin" it is probably a problem of prepping the mini wrong (not clean, no/wrong primer, ...)

If just some colors behave strange, you probably need to shake them more. I had this problem as well: most colors were fine, but my greens just kept separating like crazy and I'd just get a ink-ish liquid out of the bottle.

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15 hours ago, Pingo said:

Please give a little more information.  Are these paints straight from the bottle, unthinned?  Were they well mixed beforehand?

 

What primer or basecoats are you using, and on what sort of surface (PVC plastic, pewter, resin, etc.)?

 

If you are having problems with multiple brands failing to adhere, is it possible that the problem may not be not in the paints themselves but in some property of the primer or basecoat under them?

 

 

Normally I use a wet-palette and wet my brush beforehand, but in this case I have come to using the paint straight from the bottle on an old-fashioned palette with a dry brush.

I primarily use army painters primers and it happens with all kinds of miniatures, plastic, resin, pewter, bonesium.
Currently I am painting some dropfleet.

The strange part is that it is not all paints or a single brand
Some paints work just fine.

How long should I shake the bottles? I usually give them a 5-10 second shake before pouring, but is that enough.

Will try and upload some pictures when I get home.

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Some paints need to be shaken longer.

I have been shaking paints for a minute at least.

 

Another trick is, take of the cap/tip of the bottle, and stir with a wooden skewer.

 

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You've said you're having the same problem with different paints, but I'm not clear on if you're trying them over the same primer every time? If you are, then the primer or something else related to figure prep or storage is likely the problem.

 

It is possible to apply too much primer which can make for an overly slick surface. That's not a common occurrence, but it is possible. Spray primer coats don't need to be 100% opaque and solid. It especially doesn't matter if deep crevices aren't completely filled with primer as paint in deep crevices isn't going to get handled or rubbed off in the same way as on edges or bits that poke outwards.

That said, I tend to apply primer fairly full coverage and have rarely had this problem. (Once with Floquil primer back when it was good.) If all the figures you're having a problem with were primed with the same can, maybe there's just an issue with that can of primer.

Are these figures recently primed, or did you prime them a while ago? If you've handled the figures a lot after they were primed or they've been sitting around gathering dust, that could also affect paint adherence.

If your paints have been sitting around a while, they may need more than 5-10 seconds of shaking. You could also pop the droppers off and stir to make extra sure. As others have mentioned, there is a thinner fluid that is part of the binder that can float on the top of a paint that hasn't been used for a while. It'll often have enough colour in it to still look like paint, but it'll be significantly more watery than the properly mixed paint will be.

 

If you want to try to test if it could be oils on your primer, you can take a cotton swab and dip it in some rubbing alcohol then rub it over the figure. Once it dries try the paint again.

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I have had Army Painter primers become paint repellant when applied too thick; they almost became enamel-like in finish. Particularly the red primer.

 

A quick dry brush with a brush on primer solved the issue. I thought about hitting the model with some Testors Dull Coat, but I was leery of strange reactions, like paint bubbling.

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Finally got home

I tried shaking the bottle more and it seemed to help a lot as shown in the second picture

27 minutes ago, DocPiske said:

I have had Army Painter primers become paint repellant when applied too thick; they almost became enamel-like in finish. Particularly the red primer.

 

A quick dry brush with a brush on primer solved the issue. I thought about hitting the model with some Testors Dull Coat, but I was leery of strange reactions, like paint bubbling.

That might further the issue, while I don't believe the coat is overly thick, it is primarily the brighter primers who are causing problems.

20170501_183604.jpg

20170501_183613.jpg

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Well, these look like a nice start. Personally, I would throw down some wash to start the shading (Army Painter has green and purple washes in their Quickshade Ink Set), then apply the next layers of paint. While I use a wet palette, I only thin if I see brushstokes. This can be needlessly time consuming when I end up applying too many layers of glazes when I should just be basecoating, but, eh, whatever works. Others will give their advice on how they would paint next!

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