TGP

Getting to Know Each Other = July Edition

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, TGP said:

That would (or might) be a more General form of the question. So related questions:

 

...for July 15: Does Warmachine count as Fantasy rather than pure Steam Punk?

 

...for July 15: Does all Steam Punk count as a subset of Science Fiction?

 

 

Yeah, but in general it's not one I enjoy.

Edited by Sergeant_Crunch
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10 minutes ago, TGP said:

That would (or might) be a more General form of the question. So related questions:

 

...for July 15: Does Warmachine count as Fantasy rather than pure Steam Punk?

 

...for July 15: Does all Steam Punk count as a subset of Science Fiction?

 

 

Warmachine is the magi-tech side of steam punk. 

 

No, rather I think of it as occupying some of the space between science fiction and fantasy, leaning a little closer to fantasy most of the time.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, TGP said:

Question for July 15: Does Warmachine count as Science Fiction?

 

I would say yes, while at the same time cautioning a potential reader/player/customer that it firmly falls in the subset of Steampunk and is very much a cross between Sci-Fi and Fantasy. In fact, even PP refers to it as "Full Metal Fantasy".

 

28 minutes ago, TGP said:

That would (or might) be a more General form of the question. So related questions:

 

...for July 15: Does Warmachine count as Fantasy rather than pure Steam Punk?

 

...for July 15: Does all Steam Punk count as a subset of Science Fiction?

 

 

 

I think its more Steam Punk than straight up Fantasy, but it arguably lies a lot closer to fantasy than sci-fi. As for the definition between sci-fi and fantasy, this was always a question my father asked (who ironically was a sales rep for a major publishing company). My answer was always that I saw Fantasy as things that either didn't happen while sci-fi was things that could happen in the future. This of course, is very much an overly simplified explanation, and one that gets blurred more and more all the time.

 

As for Steam Punk being Sci-Fi? I would say yes, but of course its a very distinctive subset of the sci-fi genre.

 

 

 

Edited by Gargs
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3 hours ago, TGP said:

Question for July 15: Does Warmachine count as Science Fiction?

 

I don't know that much about Warmachine, but I'd say it was more Fantasy, their robots strike me as being more like golems then, well... robots.

 

57 minutes ago, TGP said:

That would (or might) be a more General form of the question. So related questions:

 

...for July 15: Does Warmachine count as Fantasy rather than pure Steam Punk?

 

...for July 15: Does all Steam Punk count as a subset of Science Fiction?

 

 

 

See answer above.

 

Yes. I thought all the various 'Punks were sci-fi coated in a thin veneer of a broadly stereotypical and exaggerated version of a specific time and place.

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I would say warmachine is a somewhat blur between sci-fi and fantasy - I don't see it as steampunk per se.

I would agree with aku that they're subsets that are exaggerated, but you could say the same about a lot of the ____punk followings.

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Posted (edited)

On 7/17/2017 at 6:44 AM, TGP said:

 

...for July 15: Does Warmachine count as Fantasy rather than pure Steam Punk?

 

...for July 15: Does all Steam Punk count as a subset of Science Fiction?

 

 

 

The first time I heard the expression "Steam Punk" was in an edition of Dragon shortly after the W.o.t.C. take over. It looked like they were trying to extend Fantasy into the Victorian Era.

I thought the Steam Punk was cool, but I also thought it deserved to be a category all its own. Ergo, I think of War Machine &, to a lesser extent, Hordes as Steam Punk exclusively.

 

Jules Verne & sometimes H.G.Wells are considered the Fathers of Science Fiction*. Their works are really very Steam Punkish. That would make modern SciFi a spin off of Steam Punk.

 

* both get credit as Founding Fathers of war gaming to boot.

 

CORRECTION: It is Robert Louis Stevenson who is the second  suspect of the Fathers of War Gaming. Jules Verne is innocent of the charges.

Edited by malefactus
Mistaken credit
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1 hour ago, TGP said:

...for July 15: Does all Steam Punk count as a subset of Science Fiction?

 

The really general version of that question is, "Does alternate history* count as SF?" So:

 

Warmachine: Probably not. Anything that advertises "devastating spells" as a part of the setting falls into fantasy for me. Now if (and I've not investigated the setting enough to know) they handwave the "spells" as "sufficiently advanced technology" (to use the Clarke's law definition), then maybe. IMO, Star Wars falls on the SF side of that blurry line and Naomi Novik's Temeraire series is right on the line.

 

Steam Punk in general: Probably so, in that properties like Space: 1889 have a fairly firmly SF feel for me. Books that use popular mid-20th century definitions of other planets also fall into SF for me, even if written when those definitions had been comprehensively invalidated.

 

Alternate History: SF for me. The genre tends to be interested in the sequelae of interesting decisions, which I see as tightly bound to the kinds of speculation that are the core of SF.

 

* Historians like to call it "counterfactuals". Historians don't want to be infested with SF cooties. Plbbppt!

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1 hour ago, TGP said:

That would (or might) be a more General form of the question. So related questions:

 

...for July 15: Does Warmachine count as Fantasy rather than pure Steam Punk?

 

...for July 15: Does all Steam Punk count as a subset of Science Fiction?

 

 

No?

 

No. Steam Punk, like all Sci-Fantasy, is a subgenre of fantasy. Which is why Star Wars is Fantasy and not Sci-Fi.

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, TGP said:

Question for July 15: Does Warmachine count as Science Fiction?

Yes.  Now, that totally depends on what your frame of reference is for Science Fiction.  But if you follow some of the alternate histories and get into steampunk and at the turn of the century, then this is definitely science fiction compared to that.  Maybe I'm good at relativism, but everything past a rock and a cave is science fiction to someone.  

My biggest gripe with that universe isn't the science aspect, it is the fiction aspect.  There seems to be very little information behind it... unless there is a bunch in the rulebook (but I doubt it).  Compared to some other companies that produce lines of figures where you can tell there is a lot of story and background behind the figures... this seems to be lacking from this company and is probably one of the chief reasons I do not own any of them.

 

Edit: After reading some of the other answers... I did not realize there was magic involved in Warmachine.  If so, yea, that changes my answer to a Nope.  This would live in Science Fantasy.

Edited by Grayfax
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Posted (edited)

On 7/14/2017 at 1:58 PM, TGP said:

 

Weekend Questions: July 14/15/16...

Forget unlikely Sci-Fi things like phasers, what do you think near-future weapons advances will consist of?

 

Sci-Fi minis and models, do you have any? How many? (answers may use goblin, elven, wizardish, or Arabic maths; we're not picky.)

 

Bonus Quest: (to complete by the 16th) paint something that looks like it has a Zap-beam, Death-ray, Phazer-bank, etc. 

Double bonus: make it look like it glows somehow. 

 

 

So... I actually think I stumbled into accomplishing this week's challenge. Crazy.

 

Near-Future:

What do I think near-future weapons will consist of? Drones and automation. I imagine there will be more development for rail guns and the like, but I don't see them taking over from conventional propellant-driven weapons for quite some time.

 

The problem with nearly all Sci-Fi weapons is energy density. It's just not practical for a human to carry around enough battery / generator power to run full-on Sci-Fi power armor, ray guns, jet packs, etc. for long enough to be useful with current technology. On the other hand, a giant nuclear-powered warship has electricity to spare, and may make good use of that kind of gimmickry. I could imagine it scaling down to a tank, or perhaps a large drone aircraft as well, given time.

 

Sci-Fil minis and models:

 

Many. Like, 20's of 20's. Numerically, most of that is Battletech-related, but I also own two large (unpainted) Babylon 5 armies for GROPOS, dozens of B5 ships for B5Wars / Fleet action, two Dropzone Commander armies. (one painted!), and two Dropfleet Commander fleets. I also have some assorted CAVs, some 40K stuff, a few aging VOID minis and other sci-fi toys.

 

Bonus Quest:

 

I have been busily adding to my Dropzone/Dropfleet collection this year, and actually painted a space ship over the weekend. It's tiny, and evil, and drops tiny alien troops onto planets to conquer them. ::D: (No picture from last night, but it is pretty much the same as the other Dropzone/Dropfleet stuff posted below)

 

 

 


file.php?id=2491
 

 

Edited by klarg1
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No. 

I can't quite classify it as Steampunk, as I require Steampunk to have Victorian-era trappings. 

It is still fantasy, despite the presence of steam-powered stuff.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, TGP said:

That would (or might) be a more General form of the question. So related questions:

 

...for July 15: Does Warmachine count as Fantasy rather than pure Steam Punk?

 

...for July 15: Does all Steam Punk count as a subset of Science Fiction?

 

 

 

Personally, I would break steampunk down into sub-categories.

 

There is a class of it, which I would term "retor-sci-fi", which tends to be themed on fantastical technology in the Victorian style. As much as this genre goes off the rails, in terms of science, I would probably buy it as a sub-genre of Sci-Fi, at least to the extent that Space Opera counts as Sci-Fi, rather than space-bound fantasy.

 

There is another whole set of "steampunk", which is much more like Warmachine, and often includes magic or other weirdness. I think of that more like higher-tech Fantasy than any kind of science fiction.

 

I know I'm splitting hairs here, but this feels qualitatively different to me. In my head, the defining difference might just be a matter of degree, in terms of fantastical elements, but I also think that these stories tend to follow the fantasy mold of story telling (a human tale, set in a fantastical setting) more than the classical science fiction mold (an exploration of a fantastical setting's effect on human stories).

 

So, I'm calling Warmahordes fantasy, not sci-fi, but I won't get upset when you tell me I'm wrong. :upside:

Edited by klarg1
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5 hours ago, TGP said:

Question for July 15: Does Warmachine count as Science Fiction?

 

2 hours ago, TGP said:

That would (or might) be a more General form of the question. So related questions:

 

...for July 15: Does Warmachine count as Fantasy rather than pure Steam Punk?

 

...for July 15: Does all Steam Punk count as a subset of Science Fiction?

 

 

Science Fantasy it is, then. Right now, all I care about Warmachine at the moment is Yuri the Axe.

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No idea on Warmachine.

 

Steampunk? Straight up I would place it in historical bent sci-fi. However, it is easily modified to become fantasy.

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4 hours ago, TGP said:

That would (or might) be a more General form of the question. So related questions:

 

...for July 15: Does Warmachine count as Fantasy rather than pure Steam Punk?

 

...for July 15: Does all Steam Punk count as a subset of Science Fiction?

 

 

 

I think Warmachine is a mix of Steam Punk and Fantasy.

To me it reads more as Fantasy than pure Steam Punk.

 

Steam Punk is more an alternate History in my view.

Is that Scifi or Fantasy? I guess a little of both.

 

I think Steam Punk is actually Scifi's and Fantasy's secret love child.

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