Shindoku

Pinning Tobias Winterhorn's Arm

12 posts in this topic

Hello everyone, I'm new to the whole miniature hobby as a whole and I was wondering if anyone had tips on how to pin Tobias Winterhorn's arm better. I used CA glue and a paper clip, but the arm has fallen off quite a few times now. The one I own currently is primed and painted now and is going to be used on tabletop for my Pathfinder game as on of my players characters, but I was wondering for the future when I buy another for myself (and possibly when the painted one meets an inevitable accident). Even if you are unfamiliar with this mini, tips on a stronger pinning bond would be appreciated. 

Tobias Winterhorn Circled.JPG

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It's possible that the hole drilled for the pin was either too large diameter, or not deep enough.

 

Also, when I assembled mine, I positioned the staff in such a way that I could also anchor it to the bow.

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Posted (edited)

My thoughts were same as Clearman's in that the pin hole's weren't deep enough. Also have you tried using a 2-part epoxy instead of ca glue? Curious as to how your arm keeps falling off as well, dropped from a height by accident or from game handling? If game handling I'd say if possible drill deeper holes. Could try a super thin layer of green stuff between the two pieces so that the ca glue adhere's to both sides maybe, at least than you know both sides are flush. In any case would like to know your solution.

Edited by kazmania7

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I have the pin about 3mm into his arm (more so into his head, I destroyed part of the arm due to inaccurate drilling) and just under 2 mm into his hand. I tried to go as far as I thought I could without poking through the other side. 

 

The arm falling off has been from a few things. At first it was from falling on it's side at the table, it only had the base that came with it and would fall over from weight distribution. Once from the player moving the mini by the hand of the miniature. Then, one of my players decided to help me clean up at the end of the night and put him in a different slot of the cardboard box that I use to transport my minis, the next week when i opened the box his arm swung around pretty intensely. Finally, the last few times have been falls, apart from another on the table tip over. From my chair to my carpeted floor, it's only survived the fall twice out of a total of about 6 times.

 

I tried putting a bit of green stuff, but I may have been putting in too much, I can experiment again with either the new one or if this one breaks again. I will definitely try a smaller hole on the new one, I would have figured that using the largest pin possible would have provided a stronger hold. As for epoxy, I'll have to pick some up and try it out. Have any suggestions on what type of putty?

 

Thanks for the replies :)

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I would definitely try the 2-part epoxy (not putty, but glue--think J. B. Weld or similar) just remember that the epoxy takes much longer to cure so you'll have to give it a good 24 hours to cure.  

 

Something to keep in mind is that the staff itself might break from repeated falls.  Anything you can do to help prevent this (you mentioned re-basing, for example) is going to be key.  The hard truth is that if your minis are regularly falling on the floor then damage is going to be inevitable in the long term.  This would be why a lot of my gaming pieces have been Bones lately.  

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10 hours ago, Shindoku said:

I would have figured that using the largest pin possible would have provided a stronger hold. As for epoxy, I'll have to pick some up and try it out. Have any suggestions on what type of putty?

 

In addition to what @LittleBluberry said:

 

If the pin is stronger than the surrounding metal, the extra strength won't help. Even a fairly thin pin will give the additional mechanical strength you need. In some joints (probably not this one), two small pins will work better than one larger pin, because they will give you mechanical resistance to torque. It's a tool to remember if you get into certain challenging situations.

 

As to glue: I use JB Kwik (the 5-minute version of JB Weld). It's not as strong as the slower-setting version, but it's been strong enough for me. Note that a 5-minute setting glue is not fully cured in 5 minutes (and the same applies to glues with longer set times). Most epoxies will list (in small print) the actual cure time on the packaging, so pay attention to that. It's important that you don't move anything in the joint while the glue is curing, or you can significantly reduce the strength of the bond.

 

And finally, regardless of the strength of the joint, if you abuse tin enough, it will break. This is another of those weakest link situations. If you're playing with fumble-fingered gorillas, you might want to pick their figures with durability in mind.

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When I painted this guy, the hand was all the time falling off, even with a pin.

 

The main reason is that I was using superglue, which is very weak in the shear direction - with a pin that that, shearing means rotating.  The spear is a perfect helicopter blade on this guy so it kept rotating and basically attacking the superglue at its weakest.  I don't know enough about other kinds of glues to direct your search, but just anything besides superglue would probably work better.

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11 hours ago, Doug Sundseth said:

And finally, regardless of the strength of the joint, if you abuse tin enough, it will break. This is another of those weakest link situations. If you're playing with fumble-fingered gorillas, you might want to pick their figures with durability in mind.

Haha, gorillas could be a word to describe my players some times when it comes to miniature handling (and on the occasion myself). Especially after the time that the wizard decided to flick his Kael figure (bones) onto the map to place his figure. Originally, I was going to paint the miniatures up the way I wanted them and they would be the start of my collection as a DM. Over time, my thoughts about it changed and I've decided that after my campaign is over, the miniatures will be given to the respective players as they don't have their own. Something for them to remember the campaign by. I assume one day, eventually, they'll become mantelpieces more or less.

 

 When I get around to buying a new Tobias, I'll see what I can do to keep his hand on. In the meantime, still open to even more suggestions. I'd love to get multiple and do some tests and find out which is the strongest for similar miniatures. 

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My player's Tobias is constantly falling apart in transport. I still haven't tried drilling it (I've not got the things needed to do so) but I was worried about how I could fix it. I've been using Superglue (I think that's what it is...I'm not certain) to fix the hand in place. Does pinning actually help with such a small piece?

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22 minutes ago, Paradoxical Mouse said:

Does pinning actually help with such a small piece?

 

Yes, especially if you're using superglue (cyanoacrylate adhesive). Superglue is very strong in tension (when you try to pull something directly away from the thing it's bonded to), but in shear or torsion stress situations (twisting or sliding force), it's not very strong at all. It's also brittle, so shocks can shatter the connection.

 

A single pin gives you a mechanical (rather than just chemical) point that will take much of the force from shears and shocks. You need two pins typically to take torsion forces.

 

2-part epoxy cements (I use JB Kwik) are stronger and less brittle (and take much longer to set and longer still to cure fully), but pinning still helps.

 

And it's precisely things that have very small contact points where pinning is most important.

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3 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

Yes, especially if you're using superglue (cyanoacrylate adhesive). Superglue is very strong in tension (when you try to pull something directly away from the thing it's bonded to), but in shear or torsion stress situations (twisting or sliding force), it's not very strong at all. It's also brittle, so shocks can shatter the connection.

 

A single pin gives you a mechanical (rather than just chemical) point that will take much of the force from shears and shocks. You need two pins typically to take torsion forces.

 

2-part epoxy cements (I use JB Kwik) are stronger and less brittle (and take much longer to set and longer still to cure fully), but pinning still helps.

 

And it's precisely things that have very small contact points where pinning is most important.

Thanks... I guess I need to buy a miniatures drill and pins...

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On 9/2/2017 at 3:16 AM, Paradoxical Mouse said:

Thanks... I guess I need to buy a miniatures drill and pins...

 

Go for a pin vise instead of a drill - cheaper, and I'd argue it works better on a small scale that a drill.

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