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What would YOU like to see taught next year

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6 hours ago, Cyradis said:

 

Could a few people/judges deliberately paint to certain standards, for the sake of demonstrating negatives? That way you aren't using pieces that had the goal of "being the best" but came up short. 

 

It’s surprisingly difficult for competent artists to produce deliberately amateurish works.

 

I have seen professional art designers attempt to imitate childish drawings for advertisements, for example. They never seem to make the right kind of mistakes, and the art always looks subtly off.

 

Likewise, when good artists try to emulate what they see (or think they see) wrong in other art, it often results in little more than clumsy parody and mockery, be it of romance novel covers, comic books, the Impressionists, or so forth.

 

This might work best if the teachers hang onto their own personal misfires as examples.

 

6 hours ago, Wren said:

Pictures being publicly available doesn't mean that we'd feel comfortable doing public critiques of the work without the knowledge/permission of the artists. I've faced this same problem coming up with examples for classes sometimes. I'll occasionally pass around pictures of work by other artists in a positive context, but reserve the here's what sucks don't do it kind of information for reviews of my own work only.

 

Wow, that’s a fraught area.

 

I have sometimes participated in blogs and panels at conventions that focus on problems in genre book cover art, to partly educational but also humorous effect.

 

It’s a grey area. My personal take on it has always been to: 1, Only focus on professional publications; 2, Make it clear that even the best of artists can have a bad day; and 3, Make it equally clear that books are still loved even when saddled with awful cover art (with a blue ribbon mention for poor Ursula LeGuin’s “Earthsea” books, which seem to have had an unusually high number of different unfortunate covers).

 

It does help a lot that everyone present is presumed to love the genre in question and be affectionately aware of its flaws, warts and all.

 

It’s very difficult to hold third-party work up as bad examples, especially work made for personal enjoyment which has not been deliberately placed in public explicitly to be judged, without coming across as meanspirited. 

 

 

Edited by Pingo
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In addition to the points Pingo raised (which are very interesting and many I hadn't thought about), the problem with some of us trying to do some work badly is that we barely have time to do the work we're supposed to be doing well. ;-> With deadlines and needing to do a certain amount of work to pay bills and whatnot, a lot of people who teach classes aren't going to have the luxury of time that would require.

I did find going back through my past work looking for examples of things I didn't do so well pretty fruitful, so possibly that's something we could look at to supply material. The main issue there can be that the photography of the past has as many issues as the painting of the past. ;->

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When I suggested older projects that had been submitted, I was thinking of the 2 that I have entered in the last 2 years...

 

Now I realize everyone is different, but I went and asked the judges why I received the gradings I got, and I would not be adverse to my projects being discussed, as I learned why I got what I did, and that information would be useful for others...

 

Also, if I was asked to bring my Not Perfect, But Acceptable diorama from 2016, for their use as a teaching tool in a composition / diorame class, I would be happy to do so, provided that I had the space in my mini case...

My Goblin in Cougar Town was give to the subject, so getting it back to Con is problematic...

I would also be happy to discuss what I learned from each peice...

Provided that I wasn't in class myself, etc...

 

I also think that the nature of people on these forums would let them be glad to have their work used as an example, especially if they were given a write up about what they did right, and what they did wrong...

But that may just be me....

 

also: From the competition rules...

Other Rules

#4

By submitting an entry you agree to allow the model to be photographed by Reaper Miniatures, ReaperCon, Hobby-Q, Master Series Paint or Master Series Paint Open for use in ads, promotions, and galleries.

I would think that this would allow the instructors to use the photos..

 

I also grant any and all Instructors at ReaperCon to use pics of minis that I have entered in any MSP Painting contest to use said pics as referefnce materials for classes taught at ReaperCon...

 

George Lukach

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Actually... if not having suitable pieces to critique in such a class was an issue ... suggest that participants bring pieces /to/ critique? With the likely spread of skill levels, you would have a good chance of getting sufficient pieces, and people willing to hear what needs to be improved.

I have lots of possibilities, and would likely have more by next Reapercon, assuming I was going, and it's a class I would be interested in taking, if it was offered.

 

Is a thought, anyway.

 

 

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On 12/8/2017 at 1:35 PM, Wren said:

In addition to the points Pingo raised (which are very interesting and many I hadn't thought about), the problem with some of us trying to do some work badly is that we barely have time to do the work we're supposed to be doing well. ;-> With deadlines and needing to do a certain amount of work to pay bills and whatnot, a lot of people who teach classes aren't going to have the luxury of time that would require.

I did find going back through my past work looking for examples of things I didn't do so well pretty fruitful, so possibly that's something we could look at to supply material. The main issue there can be that the photography of the past has as many issues as the painting of the past. ;->

 

If you'd be willing to do the class, I'd be willing to supply the photos and minis to critique.  I have most of the minis I have ever painted going back to my dry-brush days all the way up to my present level.  All of it would be at your disposal, both photos and actual minis (since I drive down bringing a suitcase of minis is not an issue).

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One issue with this type of class is that you are only getting the opinion of a single judge. ReaperCon is judged with a panel of three judges and we all tend to look at different things. Many times we are in complete agreement but in other cases we can be quite split in our opinions. A class taught by Wren will only feature Wren's opinions, of course those are excellent opinions, but you are only going to get a look at 1/3 of your potential score in the competition.  Those other two opinions is why a gold medal winner will receive two 4s and a 3 (11 points) instead of every gold medal winner receiving three 4s. Or what the difference is between a low silver (8 points, typically two 3s and a 2) and a high silver (10 points, typically two 3s and a 4).

Edited by Heisler
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On 12/21/2017 at 3:02 PM, Heisler said:

One issue with this type of class is that you are only getting the opinion of a single judge. ReaperCon is judged with a panel of three judges and we all tend to look at different things. Many times we are in complete agreement but in other cases we can be quite split in our opinions. A class taught by Wren will only feature Wren's opinions, of course those are excellent opinions, but you are only going to get a look at 1/3 of your potential score in the competition.  Those other two opinions is why a gold medal winner will receive two 4s and a 3 (11 points) instead of every gold medal winner receiving three 4s. Or what the difference is between a low silver (8 points, typically two 3s and a 2) and a high silver (10 points, typically two 3s and a 4).

 

I think my original idea was that it be a panel discussion taught by 3 judges.

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It would be super cool if Reaper could get Jeremie Bonamant Teboul to come teach again.  His classes were some of the most enlightening classes as he goes about painting quite different.  Also the classes he taught were pretty advanced as far as technique and theory which is a nice option for folks who have been to a few Reapercons before.  Continental painting seems to approach things in a different way.   

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On 10/24/2017 at 2:53 PM, Mnemonic said:

... Another idea is to offer a few more instances of the most popular classes if possible. Hopefully the data is available someplace, but if a class sold out 20 minutes after registration opened then that is what I'm targeting. I'm sure there are many that would appreciate the added flexibility of taking a highly desired class in 2 or 3 possible timeslots.

 

Amen.  Sold out in 20 minutes?   How about less than 10 seconds.

 

At the risk of stepping on virtual toes, I detect a note of classupsmanship.  I have heard, to paraphrase, "I got so and so's class, and they are so great, and we are personal friends, and it is so hard to get, and it is the bestest ever there was, and people have told me how they envy me, and I took it last year, too."  Have the same class offered twice or thrice would go a long way to addressing that phenomenon.  Especially for folks who would really like to learn the technique from a respected artist.

 

The issue, I think, is whether an instructor is going to sign up for teaching some of these incredibly popular classes.  Some will and, I venture, some won't.

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To the OP.

 

Hands.  Feet.  Arms.  Legs.  Butts.  And such.

 

There are always face and eyes and skin classes.  I have taken and will continue to take them.  But, thanks to a particularly good class last year, we were encouraged to put down the brush and mini and look at art.  Lots of art.  Intently. 

 

I noticed that a hand can become a whole complex project in itself.  And that a really well done hand ups the level of the entire mini.  Then I noted that feet can do the same.  It seems to me that improvement in skin covered areas -- other than the face --  would help me quite a lot.  It is more than just highlights and shadows; it is how you look at different parts of the body and how you can represent them in mini scale.

 

I'd take those classes.

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18 hours ago, Highlander said:

To the OP.

 

Hands.  Feet.  Arms.  Legs.  Butts.  And such.

 

There are always face and eyes and skin classes.  I have taken and will continue to take them.  But, thanks to a particularly good class last year, we were encouraged to put down the brush and mini and look at art.  Lots of art.  Intently. 

 

I noticed that a hand can become a whole complex project in itself.  And that a really well done hand ups the level of the entire mini.  Then I noted that feet can do the same.  It seems to me that improvement in skin covered areas -- other than the face --  would help me quite a lot.  It is more than just highlights and shadows; it is how you look at different parts of the body and how you can represent them in mini scale.

 

I'd take those classes.

 

Well now, these are a great idea. Apart from my usual medieval and occasional steampunk and sci-fi subjects, I like painting pinup girls. I learned hair and makeup on my own, but I think a class targeting these would fill rather quickly and would be a great follow-on to Jess'  'Painting Hot Chicks' class. Geez, redheads' hair and makeup could be its own class...

 

Glen

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I was thinking about knees.  There is some interesting anatomy around the knee.  If represented well at mini scale, it really adds to the result.  Even if the sculpture does not provide the contours of the anatomy, it can be represented in paint.  The same goes for calves, thighs, forearms, wrists, upper arms, shoulders, backs, butts, necks ... well you get the idea.

 

I just don't know how to do it.

 

Maybe a basic anatomy for minis class.  Hands-on.  I can get endless anatomy information from books and the internet; I just haven't been able to transfer it to a mini.

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Highlander, et al: look for book entitled 'Drawing the Head and Figure' by Jack Hamm. It pops up in used book stores on a regular basis and is likely available on line as well (think Amazon). It dates back to 50s/60s (and the clothing and hair styles demonstrate this), but it's an excellent anatomical references that shows how to render facial features and body parts, but also what bone, muscle, and tendon groups protrude and/or recede in any given position. I use it when painting (especially flats which often lack such details). If nothing else it gives you an idea of where to put a shadow or highlight even if the sculptor neglected to provide a reason for it.

 

Glen

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      Last year there were more volunteers than spaces, so not every one was on every card, and hopefully there will be enough volunteers again this year. It made for a good variety. So, this thread is not for signing up to receive a card to play. This is a signup for people who are willing to be on a card. The cards will be freely handed out at the convention. Just come find me, and potentially my wife who may have my materials. Be aware, volunteering to be on the card will mean that complete strangers will be coming up to meet you, and they may not be actually signed up and be on this forum. That happened more often than I thought it would last year. If that makes you uncomfortable, then reconsider volunteering.
       
      So, the ground rules:
       
      I exclude the Reaper peeps since they are all pretty accessible. The game's purpose is to meet the less visible and vocal forum members. I will continue that. Sorry peeps, we love ya, but I feel that's best. The free square in the middle will be me, since everybody has to meet me to get the card it seems the fairest way. You must be going to ReaperCon to be on the card please! And if possible, the full Thursday to Saturday at least. It's unfair to those whose card you are on if you don't show, or are a Saturday only person. I will not exclude you if you are a Saturday only (or similar) limited attendee. However, people who have you on their cards will get to cross you off without meeting you if you aren't there when they need you for bingo. By replying with the information below, you are giving your permission to use the picture provided and your name provided, and to be inundated with people introducing themselves to you. Once I've printed the cards (much closer to the con than I want), they are set in stone. I can't remove people from the cards, and they're a bit pricey to just toss. Plans change, life happens, and if you become a no-show, you simply become a gimme square and are crossed off automatically by those who need your square. It already happened once and well, it will probably happen again. We'll just roll along in those cases. Signups will be open from now until August 15th. That gives me a mere two weeks to randomize the cards and have them printed on card stock. I'll get a mod to lock this thread on that date, and once the thread is locked, no more volunteers will be accepted. One does not need to be very active on these forums to be on the card, but it helps people to recognize you. But I will not turn away anybody that isn't very active if they really want to be on the card. If there's a question about any of these numbered questions, please quote the text since the numbering is automatic and I can't control it if there's an insertion. I will update these rules as questions and issues come up.  
      All ready to sign up? Good! Here's what you need to do. Reply to this thread with:
      The name you want to use. I prefer your forum handle, so people might have some idea of who you are. They can always write your real name across the square as a way of crossing you off, but it's up to you what name to have on the card. What picture you wish to use for your square. Again, I prefer your forum picture, but if you are someone who changes it often, I might grab one that isn't current so having you explicitly give me one helps. What days you will be at ReaperCon. I'll put the days you won't be there on the square, and this will help us know if your are there that day or not. I'm only using Thursday thru Sunday, with Wednesday as a simple bonus day.  
      This is optional, but if you could also send a recent picture of your actual self via PM to me, I'd appreciate it. Something like a full on face shot, without costume. I plan to have a "cheat sheet" of sorts to help myself remember who is who. This way I can help direct people to those members they're still needing to collect. My brain isn't wired to put names to faces easily, and being tired from the Con won't help that. So, having something I can use to point the way will help. Again, this is optional.
       
      I think that's it for now. See you all in a month!
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