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Guyscanwefocusplease

CAV: SO Ritterlich Cougar squadron 72208

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These guys look great!

I have never painted any kind of vehicle, much less a CAV model, so I'm not entirely sure how to approach them. Obviously painting something that's meant to be organic is much different from painting a machine. But the principles are probably roughly the same, you're just dealing with a lot more flat surfaces.

First and foremost, I agree that painted is better than unpainted and it's totally understandable that when doing a bunch of these guys all in the same colour scheme that you'd lose patience with doing something very tedious like edge highlighting everything. I don't blame you at all. I don't batch paint because I don't have reason to do so, but I 100% understand that it can become very grating to do the same thing over and over. That being said, since you are looking for feedback for improving, I would highly recommend working toward being more patient with a technique like that. A lot of what we're training ourselves to do with painting is teaching ourselves patience and gaining muscle memory from doing the same things over and over and over until your hand just knows what it's doing as soon as you pick up the brush. Edge highlighting is great practice for brush control and patience and the more you do it, the easier and faster you'll be able to do it in the future.

Like I said, I get it, you were doing 5 of these guys at once. But on the next batch, challenge yourself to carefully edge highlight to the highest standard you think you're capable of on more than you think you'll have the patience to do. So if you think you'll be able to get through only 1 of them before you're going to get sick of it, challenge yourself to get through 2 of them. If you think you can do 2, challenge yourself to do 3 of them, etc.

The edge highlighting doesn't look bad on any of them, by any means, but the lines are too thick and leaves me to wonder if you were using the point of your brush to do it or the side of it?

 

As far as the OSL is concerned, I don't have a lot of experience with it so I'm not sure what to tell you to improve what you already have going. I think it looks really good, and the front guns are a little bit more successful than the rear.....I don't know what those are, exhaust ports? Please excuse my lack of mechanical knowledge. :lol: So I'm not really sure on the technical aspects of what makes the front OSL appear more successful, but I suspect that it's because you have a greater spectrum in the colour range on the front than on the back. The front has orange, all the way up to white...whereas the back goes from yellow to white.

 

The same thing with the windows, I think they look really good, but if you look at the method for painting a gemstone, which is pretty much what you're doing there, you really want to push the contrast so that your darkest points are really dark and your brightest points are really bright to show the reflective nature of glass. I think you have the placement right, you obviously understand the principles of that gem technique, so you've got the dual highlight, just kick it up a notch. Just so you know, the first thing I said when the pictures loaded up was "Ooh, I like those windows."

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27 minutes ago, Guindyloo said:

These guys look great!

I have never painted any kind of vehicle, much less a CAV model, so I'm not entirely sure how to approach them. Obviously painting something that's meant to be organic is much different from painting a machine. But the principles are probably roughly the same, you're just dealing with a lot more flat surfaces.

First and foremost, I agree that painted is better than unpainted and it's totally understandable that when doing a bunch of these guys all in the same colour scheme that you'd lose patience with doing something very tedious like edge highlighting everything. I don't blame you at all. I don't batch paint because I don't have reason to do so, but I 100% understand that it can become very grating to do the same thing over and over. That being said, since you are looking for feedback for improving, I would highly recommend working toward being more patient with a technique like that. A lot of what we're training ourselves to do with painting is teaching ourselves patience and gaining muscle memory from doing the same things over and over and over until your hand just knows what it's doing as soon as you pick up the brush. Edge highlighting is great practice for brush control and patience and the more you do it, the easier and faster you'll be able to do it in the future.

Like I said, I get it, you were doing 5 of these guys at once. But on the next batch, challenge yourself to carefully edge highlight to the highest standard you think you're capable of on more than you think you'll have the patience to do. So if you think you'll be able to get through only 1 of them before you're going to get sick of it, challenge yourself to get through 2 of them. If you think you can do 2, challenge yourself to do 3 of them, etc.

The edge highlighting doesn't look bad on any of them, by any means, but the lines are too thick and leaves me to wonder if you were using the point of your brush to do it or the side of it?

 

As far as the OSL is concerned, I don't have a lot of experience with it so I'm not sure what to tell you to improve what you already have going. I think it looks really good, and the front guns are a little bit more successful than the rear.....I don't know what those are, exhaust ports? Please excuse my lack of mechanical knowledge. :lol: So I'm not really sure on the technical aspects of what makes the front OSL appear more successful, but I suspect that it's because you have a greater spectrum in the colour range on the front than on the back. The front has orange, all the way up to white...whereas the back goes from yellow to white.

 

The same thing with the windows, I think they look really good, but if you look at the method for painting a gemstone, which is pretty much what you're doing there, you really want to push the contrast so that your darkest points are really dark and your brightest points are really bright to show the reflective nature of glass. I think you have the placement right, you obviously understand the principles of that gem technique, so you've got the dual highlight, just kick it up a notch. Just so you know, the first thing I said when the pictures loaded up was "Ooh, I like those windows."

Thank you so much for the C&C.  I look forward to practicing the edging, jeweling, and OSL more, and getting them to look better!  The next couple ritter are doubles instead of groups of 5, so hopefully I'll be able to keep more patience with them :) 

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On 11/6/2017 at 12:35 PM, Guindyloo said:

These guys look great!

I have never painted any kind of vehicle, much less a CAV model, so I'm not entirely sure how to approach them. Obviously painting something that's meant to be organic is much different from painting a machine. But the principles are probably roughly the same, you're just dealing with a lot more flat surfaces.

 

 

1000% this.

In my own opinion, vehicles/mecha force a slightly different mentality for highlights and shading, because you have so many more hard edges, and flat surfaces. On most organic models, all the curves give natural gradients for managing light and shadow, and you rarely have a  big area of one single shade. With these guys, every flat plate wants to be a single color, which can lead to muddy details for the viewer. You have already caught onto one method for breaking up the monotony: edge highlighting - and you did a good job of it. (I know it's tedious, and frustrating. I'm afraid there is no real fix but patience)

 

If you want to take it up to another level, I would suggest brightening the edge highlights along the upper edges of each panel (where applicable), and along all the edges of any panels that are on top of  the mini. It will keep the edge-highliging look, but also incorporate the illusion of zenithal lighting for the viewer.(I hope that makes sense. I don't have a clear diagram to show you.) 

 

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5 hours ago, klarg1 said:

 

1000% this.

In my own opinion, vehicles/mecha force a slightly different mentality for highlights and shading, because you have so many more hard edges, and flat surfaces. On most organic models, all the curves give natural gradients for managing light and shadow, and you rarely have a  big area of one single shade. With these guys, every flat plate wants to be a single color, which can lead to muddy details for the viewer. You have already caught onto one method for breaking up the monotony: edge highlighting - and you did a good job of it. (I know it's tedious, and frustrating. I'm afraid there is no real fix but patience)

 

If you want to take it up to another level, I would suggest brightening the edge highlights along the upper edges of each panel (where applicable), and along all the edges of any panels that are on top of  the mini. It will keep the edge-highliging look, but also incorporate the illusion of zenithal lighting for the viewer.(I hope that makes sense. I don't have a clear diagram to show you.) 

 

Hi Klarg1 (are there others?),

 

Thanks very much for the feedback.  My first painted CAVS were Terrans, which look alright, but I was finding there was a lot of monotony, and all these fairly crisp edges are the perfect opportunity to try some edge highlighting. 

 

I think after getting feedback from  Guindyloo and you, I have a few objectives for my next pair of Ritter Cavs, which will be a pair of silverbacks:

 

1) Get more crisp and thinner edge while highlighting 

2) Going over certain highlights a second time as per your suggestion to achieve something resembling the zenithal effect

3) Work on a greater color range for OSL objects to give them greater depth

 

Speaking of which... do you know of anyone that does zenithal highlights on CAV or other mechanical models? I don't recall any, but this is really my only foray into non-organic models so I'm probably just ignorant.

 

Also, Guindyloo, you asked whether I was painting with the tip or the edge of my brush- I was painting with the tip. Would it be a good idea to try to paint with the edge instead?

  

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40 minutes ago, Guyscanwefocusplease said:

Hi Klarg1 (are there others?),

 

Once upon a time, there were :ph34r:

 

41 minutes ago, Guyscanwefocusplease said:

Speaking of which... do you know of anyone that does zenithal highlights on CAV or other mechanical models? I don't recall any, but this is really my only foray into non-organic models so I'm probably just ignorant.

 

I'm sure there are. I have tried it a couple of times, but it's not really my style. If you're looking around for ideas, Aaron Lovejoy, of Miniature Monthly fame, does some great work with vehicles, but mostly at larger scales than CAV. (That I've seen)

 

You can also look at the published work of the Battletech CamoSpecs team www.camospecs.com (Not CAV, but similar style, and scale)

 

Dave Lewis, creator of Dropzone Commander, posted some painting tutorials for his 10mm-scale edge-highlighting on YouTube.  (Not quite what you're looking for, but a nice tutorial)

 

For whatever it's worth, you can read my own half-mad ramblings on painting a mecha model here: http://blindmetalminis.blogspot.com

 

Good luck! I hope some of this helps.

 

 

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Actually, one more point: To make a simple edge highlight, it's easiest to run the side of the brush along the target edge, rather than the point. Done right, the shape of the sculpt will do a lot of the work for you. With Bones, the edges are slightly softer, which means you won't get as sharp a highlight, but that shouldn't be a huge issue.

 

If it really bothers you, a good solution is to blend the edge into the rest of the panel, in a smooth gradient, but that is a huge amount of work on busy models, like the ones you posted here. I reserve that level of madness for competition display pieces. :unsure:

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On 11/9/2017 at 4:47 PM, Guyscanwefocusplease said:

Hi Klarg1 (are there others?),

 

Thanks very much for the feedback.  My first painted CAVS were Terrans, which look alright, but I was finding there was a lot of monotony, and all these fairly crisp edges are the perfect opportunity to try some edge highlighting. 

 

I think after getting feedback from  Guindyloo and you, I have a few objectives for my next pair of Ritter Cavs, which will be a pair of silverbacks:

 

1) Get more crisp and thinner edge while highlighting 

2) Going over certain highlights a second time as per your suggestion to achieve something resembling the zenithal effect

3) Work on a greater color range for OSL objects to give them greater depth

 

Speaking of which... do you know of anyone that does zenithal highlights on CAV or other mechanical models? I don't recall any, but this is really my only foray into non-organic models so I'm probably just ignorant.

 

Also, Guindyloo, you asked whether I was painting with the tip or the edge of my brush- I was painting with the tip. Would it be a good idea to try to paint with the edge instead?

  

 

If you have some sort of raised edge to use as a guide, like on a corner or angle, the side of the brush will work better.  You'll have to be careful of your brush loading to make sure you don't have too much thinned paint on it (because it will just run everywhere), but a nice, straight edge is pretty much just a quick run along it with the edge of your paintbrush and it's done.  It's not only better looking most times than the tip, it's super fast.   Using the tip it tends to wobble as you move along and change your hand positions (this is my eternal bugbear doing swords that lack a sculpted ridge).  It's possible to get nice edge highlights with the tip, but it's a whole lot more work to get it right and keep it consistent.  Try using the edge of your brush on the next batch and see if it works better for you.  

 

I have a couple of CAVs I picked up at ReaperCon, so if you want a high-contrast demo of this (white edging over a dark base) to show the different results each way I'd be happy to oblige. 

 

 

Edit:  for the pieces you worked on and some of the areas you had to highlight, you might have to use the tip in any case.  And the edge highlights you did do look good.  Side-brush might save some time and make some lines a little crisper.

Edited by buglips*the*goblin
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On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 2:17 PM, Guyscanwefocusplease said:

Hi Klarg1 (are there others?),

 

Thanks very much for the feedback.  My first painted CAVS were Terrans, which look alright, but I was finding there was a lot of monotony, and all these fairly crisp edges are the perfect opportunity to try some edge highlighting. 

 

I think after getting feedback from  Guindyloo and you, I have a few objectives for my next pair of Ritter Cavs, which will be a pair of silverbacks:

 

1) Get more crisp and thinner edge while highlighting 

2) Going over certain highlights a second time as per your suggestion to achieve something resembling the zenithal effect

3) Work on a greater color range for OSL objects to give them greater depth

 

Speaking of which... do you know of anyone that does zenithal highlights on CAV or other mechanical models? I don't recall any, but this is really my only foray into non-organic models so I'm probably just ignorant.

 

Also, Guindyloo, you asked whether I was painting with the tip or the edge of my brush- I was painting with the tip. Would it be a good idea to try to paint with the edge instead?

  

Those sound like great objectives! ^_^

 

Buglips answered pretty much exactly what I would have about the edge highlighting. I suspected you were using the tip of the brush because of the thickness of your lines. Definitely give using the side of your brush a try, I think you'll have good results with it! As Buglips noted, you want to be wary of having your paint too thin and/or overloaded when you're using the side of it. But as long as you test out what your paint's doing before putting it on the model, I think you'll have a crisper, more consistent result with the side of your brush.

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