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Guyscanwefocusplease

CAV: SO Ritterlich Cougar squadron 72208

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These guys look great!

I have never painted any kind of vehicle, much less a CAV model, so I'm not entirely sure how to approach them. Obviously painting something that's meant to be organic is much different from painting a machine. But the principles are probably roughly the same, you're just dealing with a lot more flat surfaces.

First and foremost, I agree that painted is better than unpainted and it's totally understandable that when doing a bunch of these guys all in the same colour scheme that you'd lose patience with doing something very tedious like edge highlighting everything. I don't blame you at all. I don't batch paint because I don't have reason to do so, but I 100% understand that it can become very grating to do the same thing over and over. That being said, since you are looking for feedback for improving, I would highly recommend working toward being more patient with a technique like that. A lot of what we're training ourselves to do with painting is teaching ourselves patience and gaining muscle memory from doing the same things over and over and over until your hand just knows what it's doing as soon as you pick up the brush. Edge highlighting is great practice for brush control and patience and the more you do it, the easier and faster you'll be able to do it in the future.

Like I said, I get it, you were doing 5 of these guys at once. But on the next batch, challenge yourself to carefully edge highlight to the highest standard you think you're capable of on more than you think you'll have the patience to do. So if you think you'll be able to get through only 1 of them before you're going to get sick of it, challenge yourself to get through 2 of them. If you think you can do 2, challenge yourself to do 3 of them, etc.

The edge highlighting doesn't look bad on any of them, by any means, but the lines are too thick and leaves me to wonder if you were using the point of your brush to do it or the side of it?

 

As far as the OSL is concerned, I don't have a lot of experience with it so I'm not sure what to tell you to improve what you already have going. I think it looks really good, and the front guns are a little bit more successful than the rear.....I don't know what those are, exhaust ports? Please excuse my lack of mechanical knowledge. :lol: So I'm not really sure on the technical aspects of what makes the front OSL appear more successful, but I suspect that it's because you have a greater spectrum in the colour range on the front than on the back. The front has orange, all the way up to white...whereas the back goes from yellow to white.

 

The same thing with the windows, I think they look really good, but if you look at the method for painting a gemstone, which is pretty much what you're doing there, you really want to push the contrast so that your darkest points are really dark and your brightest points are really bright to show the reflective nature of glass. I think you have the placement right, you obviously understand the principles of that gem technique, so you've got the dual highlight, just kick it up a notch. Just so you know, the first thing I said when the pictures loaded up was "Ooh, I like those windows."

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27 minutes ago, Guindyloo said:

These guys look great!

I have never painted any kind of vehicle, much less a CAV model, so I'm not entirely sure how to approach them. Obviously painting something that's meant to be organic is much different from painting a machine. But the principles are probably roughly the same, you're just dealing with a lot more flat surfaces.

First and foremost, I agree that painted is better than unpainted and it's totally understandable that when doing a bunch of these guys all in the same colour scheme that you'd lose patience with doing something very tedious like edge highlighting everything. I don't blame you at all. I don't batch paint because I don't have reason to do so, but I 100% understand that it can become very grating to do the same thing over and over. That being said, since you are looking for feedback for improving, I would highly recommend working toward being more patient with a technique like that. A lot of what we're training ourselves to do with painting is teaching ourselves patience and gaining muscle memory from doing the same things over and over and over until your hand just knows what it's doing as soon as you pick up the brush. Edge highlighting is great practice for brush control and patience and the more you do it, the easier and faster you'll be able to do it in the future.

Like I said, I get it, you were doing 5 of these guys at once. But on the next batch, challenge yourself to carefully edge highlight to the highest standard you think you're capable of on more than you think you'll have the patience to do. So if you think you'll be able to get through only 1 of them before you're going to get sick of it, challenge yourself to get through 2 of them. If you think you can do 2, challenge yourself to do 3 of them, etc.

The edge highlighting doesn't look bad on any of them, by any means, but the lines are too thick and leaves me to wonder if you were using the point of your brush to do it or the side of it?

 

As far as the OSL is concerned, I don't have a lot of experience with it so I'm not sure what to tell you to improve what you already have going. I think it looks really good, and the front guns are a little bit more successful than the rear.....I don't know what those are, exhaust ports? Please excuse my lack of mechanical knowledge. :lol: So I'm not really sure on the technical aspects of what makes the front OSL appear more successful, but I suspect that it's because you have a greater spectrum in the colour range on the front than on the back. The front has orange, all the way up to white...whereas the back goes from yellow to white.

 

The same thing with the windows, I think they look really good, but if you look at the method for painting a gemstone, which is pretty much what you're doing there, you really want to push the contrast so that your darkest points are really dark and your brightest points are really bright to show the reflective nature of glass. I think you have the placement right, you obviously understand the principles of that gem technique, so you've got the dual highlight, just kick it up a notch. Just so you know, the first thing I said when the pictures loaded up was "Ooh, I like those windows."

Thank you so much for the C&C.  I look forward to practicing the edging, jeweling, and OSL more, and getting them to look better!  The next couple ritter are doubles instead of groups of 5, so hopefully I'll be able to keep more patience with them :) 

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On 11/6/2017 at 12:35 PM, Guindyloo said:

These guys look great!

I have never painted any kind of vehicle, much less a CAV model, so I'm not entirely sure how to approach them. Obviously painting something that's meant to be organic is much different from painting a machine. But the principles are probably roughly the same, you're just dealing with a lot more flat surfaces.

 

 

1000% this.

In my own opinion, vehicles/mecha force a slightly different mentality for highlights and shading, because you have so many more hard edges, and flat surfaces. On most organic models, all the curves give natural gradients for managing light and shadow, and you rarely have a  big area of one single shade. With these guys, every flat plate wants to be a single color, which can lead to muddy details for the viewer. You have already caught onto one method for breaking up the monotony: edge highlighting - and you did a good job of it. (I know it's tedious, and frustrating. I'm afraid there is no real fix but patience)

 

If you want to take it up to another level, I would suggest brightening the edge highlights along the upper edges of each panel (where applicable), and along all the edges of any panels that are on top of  the mini. It will keep the edge-highliging look, but also incorporate the illusion of zenithal lighting for the viewer.(I hope that makes sense. I don't have a clear diagram to show you.) 

 

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5 hours ago, klarg1 said:

 

1000% this.

In my own opinion, vehicles/mecha force a slightly different mentality for highlights and shading, because you have so many more hard edges, and flat surfaces. On most organic models, all the curves give natural gradients for managing light and shadow, and you rarely have a  big area of one single shade. With these guys, every flat plate wants to be a single color, which can lead to muddy details for the viewer. You have already caught onto one method for breaking up the monotony: edge highlighting - and you did a good job of it. (I know it's tedious, and frustrating. I'm afraid there is no real fix but patience)

 

If you want to take it up to another level, I would suggest brightening the edge highlights along the upper edges of each panel (where applicable), and along all the edges of any panels that are on top of  the mini. It will keep the edge-highliging look, but also incorporate the illusion of zenithal lighting for the viewer.(I hope that makes sense. I don't have a clear diagram to show you.) 

 

Hi Klarg1 (are there others?),

 

Thanks very much for the feedback.  My first painted CAVS were Terrans, which look alright, but I was finding there was a lot of monotony, and all these fairly crisp edges are the perfect opportunity to try some edge highlighting. 

 

I think after getting feedback from  Guindyloo and you, I have a few objectives for my next pair of Ritter Cavs, which will be a pair of silverbacks:

 

1) Get more crisp and thinner edge while highlighting 

2) Going over certain highlights a second time as per your suggestion to achieve something resembling the zenithal effect

3) Work on a greater color range for OSL objects to give them greater depth

 

Speaking of which... do you know of anyone that does zenithal highlights on CAV or other mechanical models? I don't recall any, but this is really my only foray into non-organic models so I'm probably just ignorant.

 

Also, Guindyloo, you asked whether I was painting with the tip or the edge of my brush- I was painting with the tip. Would it be a good idea to try to paint with the edge instead?

  

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40 minutes ago, Guyscanwefocusplease said:

Hi Klarg1 (are there others?),

 

Once upon a time, there were :ph34r:

 

41 minutes ago, Guyscanwefocusplease said:

Speaking of which... do you know of anyone that does zenithal highlights on CAV or other mechanical models? I don't recall any, but this is really my only foray into non-organic models so I'm probably just ignorant.

 

I'm sure there are. I have tried it a couple of times, but it's not really my style. If you're looking around for ideas, Aaron Lovejoy, of Miniature Monthly fame, does some great work with vehicles, but mostly at larger scales than CAV. (That I've seen)

 

You can also look at the published work of the Battletech CamoSpecs team www.camospecs.com (Not CAV, but similar style, and scale)

 

Dave Lewis, creator of Dropzone Commander, posted some painting tutorials for his 10mm-scale edge-highlighting on YouTube.  (Not quite what you're looking for, but a nice tutorial)

 

For whatever it's worth, you can read my own half-mad ramblings on painting a mecha model here: http://blindmetalminis.blogspot.com

 

Good luck! I hope some of this helps.

 

 

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Actually, one more point: To make a simple edge highlight, it's easiest to run the side of the brush along the target edge, rather than the point. Done right, the shape of the sculpt will do a lot of the work for you. With Bones, the edges are slightly softer, which means you won't get as sharp a highlight, but that shouldn't be a huge issue.

 

If it really bothers you, a good solution is to blend the edge into the rest of the panel, in a smooth gradient, but that is a huge amount of work on busy models, like the ones you posted here. I reserve that level of madness for competition display pieces. :unsure:

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On 11/9/2017 at 4:47 PM, Guyscanwefocusplease said:

Hi Klarg1 (are there others?),

 

Thanks very much for the feedback.  My first painted CAVS were Terrans, which look alright, but I was finding there was a lot of monotony, and all these fairly crisp edges are the perfect opportunity to try some edge highlighting. 

 

I think after getting feedback from  Guindyloo and you, I have a few objectives for my next pair of Ritter Cavs, which will be a pair of silverbacks:

 

1) Get more crisp and thinner edge while highlighting 

2) Going over certain highlights a second time as per your suggestion to achieve something resembling the zenithal effect

3) Work on a greater color range for OSL objects to give them greater depth

 

Speaking of which... do you know of anyone that does zenithal highlights on CAV or other mechanical models? I don't recall any, but this is really my only foray into non-organic models so I'm probably just ignorant.

 

Also, Guindyloo, you asked whether I was painting with the tip or the edge of my brush- I was painting with the tip. Would it be a good idea to try to paint with the edge instead?

  

 

If you have some sort of raised edge to use as a guide, like on a corner or angle, the side of the brush will work better.  You'll have to be careful of your brush loading to make sure you don't have too much thinned paint on it (because it will just run everywhere), but a nice, straight edge is pretty much just a quick run along it with the edge of your paintbrush and it's done.  It's not only better looking most times than the tip, it's super fast.   Using the tip it tends to wobble as you move along and change your hand positions (this is my eternal bugbear doing swords that lack a sculpted ridge).  It's possible to get nice edge highlights with the tip, but it's a whole lot more work to get it right and keep it consistent.  Try using the edge of your brush on the next batch and see if it works better for you.  

 

I have a couple of CAVs I picked up at ReaperCon, so if you want a high-contrast demo of this (white edging over a dark base) to show the different results each way I'd be happy to oblige. 

 

 

Edit:  for the pieces you worked on and some of the areas you had to highlight, you might have to use the tip in any case.  And the edge highlights you did do look good.  Side-brush might save some time and make some lines a little crisper.

Edited by buglips*the*goblin
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On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 2:17 PM, Guyscanwefocusplease said:

Hi Klarg1 (are there others?),

 

Thanks very much for the feedback.  My first painted CAVS were Terrans, which look alright, but I was finding there was a lot of monotony, and all these fairly crisp edges are the perfect opportunity to try some edge highlighting. 

 

I think after getting feedback from  Guindyloo and you, I have a few objectives for my next pair of Ritter Cavs, which will be a pair of silverbacks:

 

1) Get more crisp and thinner edge while highlighting 

2) Going over certain highlights a second time as per your suggestion to achieve something resembling the zenithal effect

3) Work on a greater color range for OSL objects to give them greater depth

 

Speaking of which... do you know of anyone that does zenithal highlights on CAV or other mechanical models? I don't recall any, but this is really my only foray into non-organic models so I'm probably just ignorant.

 

Also, Guindyloo, you asked whether I was painting with the tip or the edge of my brush- I was painting with the tip. Would it be a good idea to try to paint with the edge instead?

  

Those sound like great objectives! ^_^

 

Buglips answered pretty much exactly what I would have about the edge highlighting. I suspected you were using the tip of the brush because of the thickness of your lines. Definitely give using the side of your brush a try, I think you'll have good results with it! As Buglips noted, you want to be wary of having your paint too thin and/or overloaded when you're using the side of it. But as long as you test out what your paint's doing before putting it on the model, I think you'll have a crisper, more consistent result with the side of your brush.

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      6x Chieftains
       
      Ritter Mercenaries:
      4x Lion II's
      1x Cougar
       
      Catamount (Jaguar model)
      3x Puma's (blue Cougar models)
      Thug
       
      We also decided to use individual model activation with the cards as opposed to section activation.  

       
      So Turn one was pretty much everyone rushing forward and/or moving forward and activating ECM to discourage target lock pot shots.  The Templar force was a little more cautious in it's approach than our side I think.
       

       
      Turn 2 was really more of the same, though we had our first suppression with my Catamount suppressing the Spartan that had used it's ECM.  One of the Javelins Run 'n' Gun'd and dropped four damage on my Cougar while the heavy tanks dropped a Javelin on the far left side.

       
      For all intents and purposes, the game ended on turn three.  We were positioned to be able to do a lot of damage and lucked out in the card deck draws.  We had five or six cards turn in row.  I took charge, activated the Catamount, and fired off his Active Phased Array 2, which netted all of the forward Templar elements.  Next, two Chieftains raced up to the center Spartan (he's behind the rock in the center of the board) and killed him with medium PBG's.  Next, my Thug moved over to put six damage on the far right Shootist.  The Shootist attempted defensive fire and did maybe one damage.  Everything else that shot at the Thug missed (honestly I thought I was trading the Thug to severely hurt the Duelist!). My Lion II's move up and gain line of sight to the second Duelist and kill it with one burn out (marked with a yellow 1.). Three chieftains peel left and kill the second Spartan while the other two Chieftains race over the left side Duelist and inflict some damage.  Our heavy tanks move forward and kill the brave Javelin, while wiffing on the other.  In MiniAddict's defense, his dice were about as cold as you could get.  All night.  It was painful for him and honestly for us because, in situations he should have inflicted damage or killed something (my Thug should have been dead) he'd only hit once or not at all.  The only glimmer of light was one of his Centurions putting six damage tracks on one of my Lion II's.  So there was that.  My Puma's all used their ECM 2 and we moved on to Turn 4.


       
      Turn Four was mainly advancing and cleaning up for our side.  My Catamount activated APA2 again while my Thug brought down the Duelist (though he burned out and I retreated back around the corner before his Centurion could engage again.  My Lion II's advanced forward and brought the center Centurion down to six damage tracks while follow up Chieftain hits brought it to 12 damage tracks.  On the other side, the heavy tanks damaged the lone Javelin and the Chieftains played tag with the left side Duelist slowly wearing it down, though the Duelist did manage to kill one of them and severely damage the other.  I lost a Lion II to a Centurion but my other three soldiered on.
       



       
      We called it after turn five, as the Lion II's and three Chieftains finished off both Centurions, the Duelist fell to the LBG of the Puma, and the Javelin was smoked by a Poltergeist or Wolf.  All in all MiniAddicts cold dice made this a lopsided game!  There were a lot of lessons and questions for this game and we look forward to playing again! 

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