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Star Wars: What's going on? (SPOILERS)

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I am not the first to point out that if the events of the prequel trilogy are accurate, then part of the Jedi mandate involved seeking out Force sensitive children, and convincing their parents to hand them over to the Jedi Order for training... from a rather young age.

I am not the first to point out that this is only a little different from what Palpatine did when he secretly engineered the creation of an army of clones to fight in the war he'd started from behind the scenes...

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10 minutes ago, Dr.Bedlam said:

I am not the first to point out that if the events of the prequel trilogy are accurate, then part of the Jedi mandate involved seeking out Force sensitive children, and convincing their parents to hand them over to the Jedi Order for training... from a rather young age.

I am not the first to point out that this is only a little different from what Palpatine did when he secretly engineered the creation of an army of clones to fight in the war he'd started from behind the scenes...

Yeah, the prequels blurred the good and bad line, as did this last movie when it was revealed that the resistance was buying weapons from the same people who the New Order was.

 

Is Kylo a Sith... Yoda said (in Revenge of the Sith or Phantom Menace) that "always two there is.. apprentice and Master...". If Kylo is the master now... then he may be recruiting as well. Snoke said as Kylo grew in power so would his equal in the Jedi... Which he thought would be Luke,,, but turned out to be Rey. If the Jedi are being reborn, the Sith could be as well.

Edited by Smokestack
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I'm not going to be long winded.  I liked the movie, even though it was basically empire strikes back with the beginning and end reversed.

 

The whole idea of the franchise catching on that there should not be good and evil, light and dark but only interaction with a neutral universe was cool

 

The bombers were just plain silly.  Who builsds something with that much drop ordinance and puts in a remote button that can be hard to find and no deadman switch?  And make them out of paper.

 

If the jump to lightspeed thing works, why haven't we seen hyperdrive ordinance.  That sort of thing is going to chance all sorts of tactics.

 

Rose and her subplot was pretty useless unless the point was to introduce the thief. Then it was mostly redundant

 

Luke was annoying and childish but that really hasn't changed in any of the movies

 

I did enjoy it but it didn't inspire another round of star wars role playing like the first disny one did.

I'm not going to be long winded.  I liked the movie, even though it was basically empire strikes back with the beginning and end reversed.

 

The whole idea of the franchise catching on that there should not be good and evil, light and dark but only interaction with a neutral universe was cool

 

The bombers were just plain silly.  Who builsds something with that much drop ordinance and puts in a remote button that can be hard to find and no deadman switch?  And make them out of paper.

 

If the jump to lightspeed thing works, why haven't we seen hyperdrive ordinance.  That sort of thing is going to chance all sorts of tactics.

 

Rose and her subplot was pretty useless unless the point was to introduce the thief. Then it was mostly redundant

 

Luke was annoying and childish but that really hasn't changed in any of the movies

 

I did enjoy it but it didn't inspire another round of star wars role playing like the first disny one did.

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It's a foregone conclusion that Kylo Ren is going to betray Rey at some point.

I find it irritating to think that rather than closure in the third movie, that they might decide to drag things out.... you know, like those Babylon 5 story arcs, except that instead of one episode a week, you have to wait a YEAR...

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12 hours ago, Smokestack said:

Yeah, the prequels blurred the good and bad line, as did this last movie when it was revealed that the resistance was buying weapons from the same people who the New Order was.

That may come as a shock for lesser members of the rebellion, but that couldn't have been a shock or reveal to anyone Who has read the news or bought from a vendor before.  Salesscum will sell to anyone with capital.  People will purchase from the lowest bidder, espescally if they are on a tight budget.  

 

I put that line down to showing how innocent both Rose and Finn are to the real world

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Just saw the new Star Wars movie, but just like the first new one they did, Rey ruins it for me

 

i hate her character (sorry to those that like her, but I do)

 

she is a badly written Mary Sue that is amazing at everything she does, even things that should require decades of Jedi training. She just immediately Masters them

 

Fly a ship? a master! Shoot from a gun turret? Instant pro! Use a lightsaber? Amazing! Can go toe to toe with TRAINED users! Jedi  mind tricks and forcing will on others? INSTANT instinctual mastering! Moving a pile of rocks bigger than the X-wing LUke tried to lift when he was training? Psh, no problem at all. Repair the Falcon when Han Solo can't figure it out? DONE!

 

and it bothers me. I like well written characters, not ones that are super amazing at every single thing they can possibly want to. What's the point of her character if she's just immediately amazingly powerful and skillful at every single thing she does? I hate it in characters. I want FLAWS. I want them to EARN their skill, not just be handed it 

 

same with  bB8. I HATE that little robot. Why is a droid able to do as much as that thing can? The scenes with that nonsense really detracted from the movie. WHy can he knock out AND tie up trained guards that should be able to kick him like a soccer ball? OR drive giant robots that probably required some sort of legs to get up and inside it? 

Edited by Sirithiliel
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When they tried to explain it as a balancing of the force, it kinda reminded me of the concept of Mirrors from the Nightwatch books. Had the minions of the Mouse explained Rey in similar more detailed fashion, it would've smoothed things out a great deal more.(Mirrors are able to instantly level up above the power level of anything that attacks them. But because they are the avatar of a force trying to balance itself, they are no longer human and once the balance is achieved they fade into nonexistance.) As to BB8......the only thing I can think of that would come close to explaining it would be if they went the route of force sensitive droids. A nonsensical explaination at best, but better than nothing and opens up the possibility of force users that are ruled by nothing except cold logic. (no emotion, so no falling to the dark side...but no empathy either which would lead to some scary things.) 

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Just get like BB8 ex machina....he was there with some absurd new situation every time they needed rescuing 

 

I just feel like they are trying to make up new things the force can do to make their characters work (like surviving in space...) 

 

if Darth vader, stated to be the most powerful Force user there ever was, still required years of training to be good....then I don’t buy that Rey can be handed skilled and masterful Jedi abilities without any actual training to get there. She can go toe to toe with trained lightsaber users and WIN when she had never used one before. She instantly knew how to force manipulate someone to free herself, etc

 

If the Force worked like that, Luke should have gotten powers without needing Yoda to train him. But Yoda made him TRAIN. He told him to stay and keep training in the force to have a chance 

 

Up until these new movies, you had to train to be good at lightsaber fighting and Jedi tricks with the force. Darth Sidious did not get a opponent who magically gained power as he did. Obi wan, Luke, even Anakin had to train to get better to face their opponents. They were not just handed powers with a gold sticker because of some magical force thing that gifted them instant mastery due to a powerful sith being present in the galaxy. Then doing that for Rey and saying that is how she got so good is a cheap cop out to me, because it had been established for 6 movies that you need to train, even if you are strong in the force 

 

heck she was able to fix the Falcon when Han Solo couldn’t! If that doesn’t show how ludicrously perfect they made her, I don’t know what does. That is Han’s baby, she should not repair it when he can’t

 

they keep making her this ‘to perfect to be believed, super powerful, instant master of whatever she attempts hero’ and it annoys me

 

Edited by Sirithiliel
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I agree with you on that, there's too much to list regarding Disney's elfing of the canon. The frustrating thing about it is that a lot of thier core ideas weren't bad it's just that they've been mishandled past any suspension of disbelief. As overpowered as Rey is in the first film, there were various ways that a logical (as logical as star wars gets anyway) explaination could've happened in the second. Say if during her time on Jakku, Rey had encountered unknowingly an artefact that a sith or jedi had figured out a way to bind thier essence to, thus Rey's abilities aren't so much hers, other than a certain force sensitivity but that of a disembodied force user slowly taking over her body in a spirit obsession kind of way. It can be done, it just seems Disney has no interest in doing so.

It's a shame that no one at Lucasfilm or Disney thought to try and get Timothy Zahn on board when they were planning these. He's already shown with the Heir to the Empire trilogy that a worthy sequel to the OT is possible. Part of what made that so, and what Disney is thus far lacking is believable characters. Compare Rey with Mara Jade for example, they both kick elf, they're both highly skilled, and both are strong in the force. But Mara Jade's skills have a backstory that explains them and she has flaws that she must overcome. That didn't make her weak, it made her human and this is what Disney has failed to do, make Rey human. 

It does not help that the prevailing recipe in moviemaking is "all action, all the time". A good bit of Empire Strikes Back was Han and Leia fixing the ship, which would be cut out nowadays because it isn't "action", but the dialogue between them during this let us get to know the characters better and hence care about what happens to them. Between the established characters not quite coming across as believable older versions of themselves and the new characters being rather one dimensional, I've lost all interest in seeing episode 9.

What drives me up a wall is the potential that was tossed away in the second one. Captain Phasma for instance. She's a strong person dedicated to her point of view that was forced into an action that led to the destruction of something that gave her side a decisive edge. Guilt is a powerful motivator and combined with say a sense of personal betrayal by Finn's defection, she could have been a complex and interesting villian, but instead they kill her off. 

 

 

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Eh, don't worry too much about Rey being a Mary Sue. In 10 years when they reboot the entire franchise, these will have all been retcon'ed as nightmare Han had while frozen in carbonite.

Edited by Pegazus
because after three checks for typos, its only after i hit submit does the typo appear
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Oh I do agree about Captain Phasma. She had so much potential and could have been so cool!

 

and they made her pathetic, dumb and ineffective =/ she could have been an amazing villain

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44 minutes ago, Sirithiliel said:

Oh I do agree about Captain Phasma. She had so much potential and could have been so cool!

 

and they made her pathetic, dumb and ineffective =/ she could have been an amazing villain

I always imagined her as the next Bobba Fett (low screen time but instant fan favorite for kick broccoli potential). Instead they made her into a shiny red shirt.

 

I bet her full name is Phasma Wilhelm.

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That would have been nice

 

when i first saw her, I expected someone skilled, capable. I mean, she was a COMMANDER. A leader. She had to get that position somehow

 

but in the first movie, she rolls over and gives the rebels what they want without question. You'd think there was a secret alarm or something she could've triggered while doing what they told her, or fought them, or something...

 

and in the second movie, they have her give in to personal vendettas instead of what should have been going with her military training and removing or neutralizing threats immediately. Walking ominously out of the smoke with her squad instead of immediately firing on Finn and Rose, and allowing BB8-ex-machina to SOMEHOW commandeer a AT-ST, which i think was an incredibly stupid and absurd plot move (from everything we've seen, they require two human pilots with HANDS to operate. I don't care how many gizmos he can send out to use the controls, i see no feasible way a soccer ball robot should be able to operate a intricate piece of machinery that requires 2 pilots).

 

Instead of using her blaster on Finn, who had a melee weapon, she fights him with a metal toothpick and instead of making sure Finn was dead, she turned on an unarmed Rose to fire at her instead of confirming her more dangerous target was actually dead

 

just not what i expected of a military commander

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I was expecting more from Phasma. I mean, it's Gwendoline Christie. :wub: She's powerful, gorgeous, commanding, talented...

 

You don't kill off a character that has a huge story to tell yet. That's why I'm hoping she survives somehow.

 

20180108_122140.thumb.jpg.8a4b3e0b5d2193169c1cc7af2e01b680.jpg

 

I'd like the next movie to do a retcon of Rey by having had her memories fudged/created by [Jedi Master]. This would explain how she really has these abilities.

 

Or have her be non-human; a creation of The Force given form in order to maintain balance. This helps to also re-establish The Force as a mystical power instead of the stupid midichlorian bs.

 

The new movies are missing the pulp novel feel. Make the aliens more alien. Where are the bizarre mixes of appearances? It felt more like a Star Trek movie. With Pokemon.

Edited by Aryanun
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I kind of hope that Rey's parents are super powerful. So powerful that they were able to erase themselves from being able to be seen by the force. Then Kylo would not be lying. He sayw the "unremarkable parents" that the real parents imprinted as a smokescreen.

 

Even Yoda cant really explain Rey. So maybe Annakin was not space Jesus immaculately conceived... But given to his mother by his real parents and then the mom's memory was fed to her by them... Rey and Annakin share a legacy...

 

I don't know. Sounds far fetched but also fun.

Edited by Smokestack
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