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So this started to come up in a KS discussion so I thought I would just go ahead and start the topic to discuss it.  

 

I'm really not sure how I feel about it.  I'm all for fixing some balance issues and other things, but I'm worried they are going to make it too video game like and more like 4E.. 

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That would quite funny, given that Pathfinder came into existence to cater to people fleeing 4e.

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9 minutes ago, Clearman said:

That would quite funny, given that Pathfinder came into existence to cater to people fleeing 4e.

 

Wow, I did not know that. After you posted I checked dates and 4e came out in ‘08 (good lord, that long ago?) and Pathfinder came out in ‘09 (as rcently as that?).

 

We’re currently looking over the Starfinder players’ book and seeing some intriguing possibilities.

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10 minutes ago, Pingo said:

 

Wow, I did not know that. After you posted I checked dates and 4e came out in ‘08 (good lord, that long ago?) and Pathfinder came out in ‘09 (as rcently as that?).

 

We’re currently looking over the Starfinder players’ book and seeing some intriguing possibilities.

I'd love to do a starfinder game if I had the time - but alas thats not going to happen. It looks very cool.

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Wow, hadn't been keeping up with this. Expected it was coming but still am surprised to see it. And disappointed.

 

This is probably the end of my interest in Pathfinder, in any case. Their entire utility was the preservation of 3.x as a living system. Since they're letting it die it'll of course become progressively niche, which is a shame. Even as the superior system imo it's always been a pain to sell it to (relative) normies who just expect their D&D to be actual D&D. With 5e here now and entirely serviceable, I just can't see investing time/energy/money in an offshoot of an off-brand game. From here on I imagine D&D again will be the go-to living game on my shelf as yet another edition falls under the dust of memorabilia.

 

 

Having said that, I'll probably be bored and caught up on bills and start picking up whatever they put out in a few years. But still.

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I have no problem with an update, per se. I mean, it has been ten years.

 

My problem is this plan to "infuse" Golarion into the core rules, I assume the same way the lore in infused into Starfinder.

 

To me, the biggest turnoff of Starfinder is that the fluff is in many ways inextricably linked to the crunch. As a creative person who writes a lot and likes to feel like I "own" something of my own efforts, I tend not to use pre-published material and find systems where too much fluff is incorporated into the rules to be cumbersome and intrusive. In the case of Golarion, I find the setting occasionally interesting, but largely tedious, and have no interest in core rules that act as a novelization or commercial for same. (I have been vocal on occasion of how much I dislike the name... terrible name for a world.) 

 

LOL - I must have made four or five posts on the Paizo site yesterday, airing this same grip. Doubtless, they will ignore myself and the people who agree with me, and that will likely end my previously long and happy relationship with Pathfinder.

 

Put it this way: one does not go out of one's way to intentionally buy a chocolate chip cookie full of raisins just so one can have the "privilege" of picking them out one by one.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Bruunwald said:

 

To me, the biggest turnoff of Starfinder is that the fluff is in many ways inextricably linked to the crunch.

I'm not sure I get what you mean about this.

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49 minutes ago, Pingo said:

 

Wow, I did not know that. After you posted I checked dates and 4e came out in ‘08 (good lord, that long ago?) and Pathfinder came out in ‘09 (as rcently as that?).

 

We’re currently looking over the Starfinder players’ book and seeing some intriguing possibilities.

 

Yes.  I didn't realize there was over a full year between 4e and Pathfinder...

 

3.5e was so well loved, and as SamuraiJack mentioned 4e played so much like a video game, the community revolved.

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18 minutes ago, Werkrobotwerk said:

I'm not sure I get what you mean about this.

Pathfinder as a rules set lends itself well to home games, even if the game world is radically different from Golarion.

 

Starfinder is a little harder to port to other properties (your group wants to do Star Wars/Trek/B5/BSG/Homebrew Space). certainly it's not impossible but some people find it trickier.

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My group will get the new edition, and moving forward will likely switch to it for new games. My Homebrew game will remain Pathfinder 1st edition. It sterted as 3.0, then 3.5 and then Pathfinder. There was not a lot of conversion needed but enough that I don't want to have to do it again. If the New edition is vastly superior then that will probably be our go to fantasy system.

 

39 minutes ago, Bruunwald said:

To me, the biggest turnoff of Starfinder is that the fluff is in many ways inextricably linked to the crunch. As a creative person who writes a lot and likes to feel like I "own" something of my own efforts, I tend not to use pre-published material and find systems where too much fluff is incorporated into the rules to be cumbersome and intrusive. In the case of Golarion, I find the setting occasionally interesting, but largely tedious, and have no interest in core rules that act as a novelization or commercial for same. (I have been vocal on occasion of how much I dislike the name... terrible name for a world.) 

 

 

I agree with this. I like the Pathfinder fluff and enjoy playing in adventure paths, but when I run, I want to run my world with my lore and my story. I have and still do incorporate some Golarion stuff I like in my homebrew, but don't want to have to rename or repurpose everything.

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Wyrm said:

Pathfinder as a rules set lends itself well to home games, even if the game world is radically different from Golarion.

 

Starfinder is a little harder to port to other properties (your group wants to do Star Wars/Trek/B5/BSG/Homebrew Space). certainly it's not impossible but some people find it trickier.

I'm coming to this discussion from having run Starfinder as a home game where I have been bending the rules over backwards to do weird things. I've got experience with d&d 3.5 in non core settings, but I've only really glanced at pathfinder. None of these really seemed like generic rules in the same vein as like savage worlds, or true 20, but they seem to work fine for other settings that are in their same genre.

 

Is it just that mechanical effects have names taken from the setting or is there something specific that pathfinder 1 did that made this easier?  alternatively if someone has a good link to something that explains what the difference is that works too.

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4 minutes ago, Werkrobotwerk said:

I'm coming to this discussion from having run Starfinder as a home game where I have been bending the rules over backwards to do weird things. I've got experience with d&d 3.5 in non core settings, but I've only really glanced at pathfinder. None of these really seemed like generic rules in the same vein as like savage worlds, or true 20, but they seem to work fine for other settings that are in their same genre.

 

Is it just that mechanical effects have names taken from the setting or is there something specific that pathfinder 1 did that made this easier?  alternatively if someone has a good link to something that explains what the difference is that works too.

I believe it's the immersion-breaking of game mechanics with setting-based names.

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I enjoyed the Golarion setting, but in the infrequent games that I do play I prefer to use Basic Fantasy or Labyrinth Lord. I don't have patience for juggling all the abilities, and feats, etc. 

 

I hope they do well with it. 

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Wow!

 

I just texted Grump the notice, which did no good at all, because I just heard his phone get the text.

 

It's still plugged into the wall.

 

And people wonder why I talk to him so much on the forums.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Wyrm said:

I believe it's the immersion-breaking of game mechanics with setting-based names.

 

I've not read Starfinder, and don't know the extent fluff and crunch are intermixed, but can it be abstracted?  When playing D&D in my youth, we all know Melf, Tenser, and Bigby were all wizards from the Greyhawk setting, but it didn't really phase anyone...

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