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9 minutes ago, Sylverthorne said:

 

Our collective suspicion (that's myself, Mr. Thorne and our gaming group), is that Resonance is a direct result of something happening in PFS. This strikes our group in general as being a big ol' stack of bullpies, with a side of rotgrubs, if true (note; speculation!).

 

But, accounting for speculation, it seems reasonable enough. >.<

This does seem like reasonable speculation.   In wargaming, official tournament play tends to bring out people who find exploits in the rules, and many times the game designer's response is to write more rules to close that loophole. I've never enjoyed tournament play as a result, and I rarely participate in them.  Given the number of RPG players I've seen over the years who will try rules exploits as well, it would not surprise me at all to find that organized play groups like PFS or AL have to deal with them as well.  Personally, I like how 5e approached it - PHB+1 cuts the opportunities for exploits down considerably. 

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29 minutes ago, Sylverthorne said:

 

Our collective suspicion (that's myself, Mr. Thorne and our gaming group), is that Resonance is a direct result of something happening in PFS. This strikes our group in general as being a big ol' stack of bullpies, with a side of rotgrubs, if true (note; speculation!).

 

But, accounting for speculation, it seems reasonable enough. >.<

 

 

 

 

In order to cater to PFS, Paizo has previously done an errata change to a feat that was as close to a removal as they could possibly get, including rendering the next feat in the chain totally unusable. Rather than change the rules of PFS to simply outlaw that feat, as they had done with many other things since day 1, they decided that they would break it for everyone that played Pathfinder despite the majority of non-PFS players never having an issue with it. And from what I gathered it was because PFS had a tendency toward cramped encounters against a single enemy, while most home games don't usually run into that problem very often.

 

So yea, redesigning entire game systems to cater to organized play doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me.

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37 minutes ago, ttuckerman said:

Yes, they could have changed the writing of PFS scenarios instead.  Much easier.  

 

They wouldn't have even had to change the writing of the scenarios. All they would have had to add it to the list of disallowed feats, right there with Leadership(banned since day 1) and others that break or severely hamper organized play if you take them. Then the change only affects PFS, which was the only place that it was really a problem.

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On 11/26/2018 at 8:39 PM, Unruly said:

 

They wouldn't have even had to change the writing of the scenarios. All they would have had to add it to the list of disallowed feats, right there with Leadership(banned since day 1) and others that break or severely hamper organized play if you take them. Then the change only affects PFS, which was the only place that it was really a problem.

What is the ratio of Pathfinder players to Organized Play players?

 

The Auld Grump

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2 hours ago, TheAuldGrump said:

What is the ratio of Pathfinder players to Organized Play players?

 

The Auld Grump

Dunno, but I'm guessing it favors home games since there's a high probability that PFS players also play outside of PFS. It's just that PFS is going to be the most visible because Paizo has direct numbers for the players, how much they play, etc.

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Theoretically, it's PFS that drives sales of books/pdfs as well.  As for PFS, you need to have either the book, photocopies of the applicable pages, or watermarked pdfs, of every source that applies to your character.  Where as, playing at home, people can pool resources or just use the online rules.

 

At least, that's how it used to be when I last played PFS (I stopped around when 5E came out).

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Even so, I don't think it's right that they will break a feat chain for everyone rather than just disallowing it in PFS. It's like if they changed the Leadership feat, after printing, to be "you gain a +2 bonus to Diplomacy checks" because they decided it didn't work with PFS when it gave cohorts and followers. But they didn't do that, they just said "Leadership cannot be taken by PFS characters."

 

The same type of crap is what annoyed me about World of Warcraft back when I was playing. They balanced much of the game off of PvP Arena  play(the 2v2 and 3v3 stuff) and it severely crippled PvE play for certain builds as abilities got nerfed all the time. And that's why I liked the way Guild Wars did it, because they balanced the skills twice, once for PvP and once for PvE, and the skills changed their function depending on what you were doing. In some cases the PvP form was vastly different from the PvE form because they couldn't find a way to balance a single function for both.

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3 hours ago, Dilvish the Deliverer said:

Theoretically, it's PFS that drives sales of books/pdfs as well.  As for PFS, you need to have either the book, photocopies of the applicable pages, or watermarked pdfs, of every source that applies to your character.  Where as, playing at home, people can pool resources or just use the online rules.

 

At least, that's how it used to be when I last played PFS (I stopped around when 5E came out).

 

That is true for PFS, but very thinly, and unevenly enforced.

 

Still, PFS has been a powerful marketing tool to get the game into stores and other public venues, and to drive sales directly.

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Well, in the case of my group it is driving sales, all right - driving them away.

 

When out of twelve people - ages twenty odd to fifty odd, almost equal numbers between male and female - none wanted to continue play with the new rules... there is a problem.

 

At this point the first stage is burning on the launch pad, but they are continuing with the countdown.

 

Anyone else fill out that survey from d20PFSRD?

 

The Auld Grump

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Sorry on the thread necromancy, but Paizo gave some information on the outcome of the playtest.  That is what's going to change from p2 playtest to p2 release.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/352455382?fbclid=IwAR3JijzlmyS1XhP8XIFPQ3gg9pQJn_w8AI9WeVsnyBQBKABzLNXa6H_L_X4

 

It's about an hour and highlights 10 things that are being changed / removed between the playtest and the release.  Best news for me is they canned resonance.  I know what they were trying to do, but the mechanics they were using just were not working.

 

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19 minutes ago, mikem91 said:

Sorry on the thread necromancy, but Paizo gave some information on the outcome of the playtest.  That is what's going to change from p2 playtest to p2 release.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/352455382?fbclid=IwAR3JijzlmyS1XhP8XIFPQ3gg9pQJn_w8AI9WeVsnyBQBKABzLNXa6H_L_X4

 

It's about an hour and highlights 10 things that are being changed / removed between the playtest and the release.  Best news for me is they canned resonance.  I know what they were trying to do, but the mechanics they were using just were not working.

 

Resonance - Let's fix a problem that no one is having by adding a mechanic that nobody likes....

 

The playtest left a pretty deep negative impression on us - not fun, with characters that ended up being incompetent at everything, no matter what level.

 

The Resonance issue was just the cherry on top of a turd sundae.... (When your wife forbids you from continuing with the playtest - it is not a good sign.)

 

The Auld Grump - that... isn't fudge....

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