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Randomness XIV: THE FLOOR IS LAVA!

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12 minutes ago, Pingo said:

 

Yep. I am writing vampire fiction. The word "vampire" is too modern for some uses.

 

(I also researched a bunch of other terms because this is meant to be character background from "Vampire: the Masquerade" and much of White Wolf's game terminology is -- to put it as kindly as possible -- jaw-droppingly, brain-liquefyingly stupid.

 

Like, an ancient millennia-old clan of aesthetic vampires who prey on artists is called "Toreadors". No. Seriously. Another clan, also far predating Spain, is called "The Lasombra," which makes my Spanish-speaking kids wince.)

 

I always just called them Lasombra - or, those sneaky shadow-crawling *censored*

It probably isn't the worst hiccup in the lore; I suspect they wrote themselves into a lot of corners without meaning to and just haven't realized it yet. ^^;

 

(I despise NWoD Vampire, but prefer NWoD Hunters. Go figure...)

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Some of the substitute terms I've used, in a Middle East / Northeast African setting (I would have found different local ones if the story were set elsewhere):

 

"Shetani" for "Nosferatu" ("Nosferatu" was a garbled folklorist error in the mid-nineteenth century that Bram Stoker regrettably picked up on and spread. It means nothing. "Shetani" is a Swahili term for malevolent deformed evil spirits.)

 

"Dhawaqun" for "Toreador" ("Dhawaqun" (singular "Dhawaqa") is an Arabic word meaning aesthete or gourmet, which seemed to fit better those vampires as described because seriously, "Toreador", what?)

 

"Sutekh" for "Set" (Because anyone actually ancient would know that his name was Sutekh, not Set, which was a later Greek garbling. Also he was not a snake god -- White Wolf appears to have been confused by the "Conan the Barbarian" movie.)

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20 minutes ago, Pingo said:

Some of the substitute terms I've used, in a Middle East / Northeast African setting (I would have found different local ones if the story were set elsewhere):

 

"Shetani" for "Nosferatu" ("Nosferatu" was a garbled folklorist error in the mid-nineteenth century that Bram Stoker regrettably picked up on and spread. It means nothing. "Shetani" is a Swahili term for malevolent deformed evil spirits.)

 

"Dhawaqun" for "Toreador" ("Dhawaqun" (singular "Dhawaqa") is an Arabic word meaning aesthete or gourmet, which seemed to fit better those vampires as described because seriously, "Toreador", what?)

 

"Sutekh" for "Set" (Because anyone actually ancient would know that his name was Sutekh, not Set, which was a later Greek garbling. Also he was not a snake god -- White Wolf appears to have been confused by the "Conan the Barbarian" movie.)

Worse - watch Mum-Ra in the Thundercats children's TV series... White Wolf pretty much stole their entire discipline from what the cartoon character could do....

 

The Auld Grump - I hate the Arnold Schwarzenegger  Conan with a passion born of actually reading the danged books....

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34 minutes ago, Pingo said:

Some of the substitute terms I've used, in a Middle East / Northeast African setting (I would have found different local ones if the story were set elsewhere):

 

"Shetani" for "Nosferatu" ("Nosferatu" was a garbled folklorist error in the mid-nineteenth century that Bram Stoker regrettably picked up on and spread. It means nothing. "Shetani" is a Swahili term for malevolent deformed evil spirits.)

 

"Dhawaqun" for "Toreador" ("Dhawaqun" (singular "Dhawaqa") is an Arabic word meaning aesthete or gourmet, which seemed to fit better those vampires as described because seriously, "Toreador", what?)

 

"Sutekh" for "Set" (Because anyone actually ancient would know that his name was Sutekh, not Set, which was a later Greek garbling. Also he was not a snake god -- White Wolf appears to have been confused by the "Conan the Barbarian" movie.)

From way, way, way back in the ancient Antediluvian interweb -

 

VENTRUE: Okay, guys, sit down. I suppose you're wondering why I've called you all here.

TOREADOR: I should think so. I have an engagement in two hours that I simply MUST attend, and I don't want to be late.

VENTRUE: Well, I don't know about you guys, but my Progeny have been asking some rather... embarrassing questions, and I--

MALKAV: Just tell them that when a Deady loves a Mummy...

VENTRUE: Shut up, Malkav. Anyway, they want to know where we come from, why, how, the whole bit. I think it's time we had an answer for them.

[silence]

BRUJAH: Well, what are you asking us for? WE don't broccoliing know.

VENTRUE: What about you, Ralph? You seem to have your nose in everything.

NOSFERATU: I am no longer called "Ralph." From this day forward, you shall call me: "Nosferatu."

[silence]

RAVNOS: I dunno, man. Ralph suits you.

NOSFERATU: No! I REFUSE to be stuck with that name.

VENTRUE: Let it alone, Ravnos.

TOREADOR: Actually, while we're on the subject ...

VENTRUE: What is it now?

TOREADOR: I have taken the pseudonym "Toreador."

[more silence]

HASSAM: You've never even SEEN a bull, let alone fought one, Norman.

TOREADOR: *glares at Hassam*

RAVNOS: More like *cough*Bullbroccoli!*cough*

VENTRUE: Shall we get back to business?

LASOMBRA: I think "Nosferatu" sounds cool, Ralph.

NOSFERATU: And it's a lot easier to say when you can't retract your fangs.

VENTRUE: GENTLEMEN!

[silence]

VENTRUE: Okay, any ideas?

MALKAV: We're distant travellers from a parallel universe.

TZIMISCE: [raises a horrifically twisted hand]

VENTRUE: [ignoring Malkav] Yes, Tzimisce?

TZIMISCE: Yas. Do you think it vaz a disease, perrrhaps?

SAULOT: No... I don't think so. I'd know about it by now if it was.

MALKAV: Uh oh! I've got an idea!

VENTRUE: [groan] What?

MALKAV: Wait... no, that doesn't make sense! If we are three steps removed, then there would have to be a first AND second step... but they're both the same... if there even... ahh... *his head twitches and he starts muttering to himself*

BRUJAH: Malkav?

MALKAV: Yeah?

BRUJAH: Drop dead.

[silence]

MALKAV: Ain't it just TOO BAD you don't have Dominate?

BRUJAH: REAL men don't NEED Dominate!

[thud]

MALKAV: Charlie likes it when you touch me.

RAVNOS: Okay, I've got it.

VENTRUE: Yes?

RAVNOS: They're not REALLY vampires, they just THINK they are.

VENTRUE: Hmmm... not bad... but then the dumb ones will try to prove you wrong by taking a sunbake.

LASOMBRA: SO? Weeds out the stupid ones, less of a population problem, less nosey Progeny asking silly questions.

TOREADOR: Lasombra, you are perverted.

LASOMBRA: Hey, am I my brother's keeper?

TZIMISCE: He has a valid point, frrriend.

TOREADOR: Sickening creatures. hmmph.

[snickering]

Saulot: Maybe we made a pact with Demons?

SET: Damned and Cursssed, yessss...

NOSFERATU: [looking at Set] Yeah, but if YOU say it, no one will believe it.

TREMERE: I know! We did it by magick!

[silence]

BRUJAH: Who the broccoli are you?

TREMERE: Oh. Tremere, Arrogant Scheming Mage at your service!

SAULOT: Hang on, you're not supposed to be here until A.D. 1314!

TREMERE: So? I'm an Oracle of Time. I'll be when I want.

VENTRUE: A mortal, eh? Hey, Tremere!

TREMERE: Yeah?

VENTRUE: GET OUT.

TREMERE: Sure. [slams door behind him] Damn. Must learn how to do that.

VENTRUE: Actually, we might be onto something with this "curse" business. We haven't heard from Gangrel yet, and we need a female opinion at this juncture. What do you think, Gangrel?

[silence]

VENTRUE: Gangrel?

[more silence]

VENTRUE: Anybody seen Gangrel?

RAVNOS: Errr, actually, we've had a bit of a disagreement ...

MALKAV: Gypsie and the Wolfie sittin in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G, first comes the blood, then comes the bond, but then he's got her soul and some Feral Claws!

RAVNOS: Suck off.

MALKAV: Did she do it doggy style?

[biff]

RAVNOS: Thank you, Brujah.

BRUJAH: No prob, bro.

VENTRUE: Okay, so what gives with this curse thing?

SAULOT: I read this book once... Well, they say that the first two sons of the first man had to give offerings to God. The first brother gave plants and stuff, and the second brother gave animal blood.

ALL: Yeah! All right! Sounds great! Cool!

SAULOT: So the older one -- Cain, I think -- killed Abel, the younger one, and was cursed by God for the very first murder.

HASSAM: Innovative man, this Cain.

SET: Ssso, we're dessscended from a psssychopathic greengrocccer. How about we're dessscended from the MURDERED one, ssso that we are the CHOSSSEN of God, the INHERITORSSS of DIVINE POWER, the--

MALKAV: You REALLY have a God complex, don't you, Set? Tell me about your mother. Did she lock you in a cupboard? Or--

[biff]

BRUJAH: Final warning, kook.

VENTRUE: Set, please, stop standing on your chair.

TREMERE: I like the "cursed by God" thing, actually.

VENTRUE: How did YOU get in here?

TREMERE: Correspondence. Don't you know ANYTHING? Hey, Saulot!

SAULOT: Yeah?

TREMERE: I JUST worked out where I've seen you before. Could I have a word with you outside? It won't take more than five minutes. Promise.

SAULOT: Sure. You seem like a decent enough fellow.

[slam]

LASOMBRA: Wonder what he wants ... anyway ...

TOREADOR: I think I prefer the older brother. He's a charming, regal figure who diligently sacrifices for his Lord, but is consumed by jealousy into a desperate act -- which he regrets later, of course -- but TOO LATE to avoid the harsh judgment of an UNCARING God, and is DOOMED to wander the earth, OUTCAST from his fellow man! Oh, the horror! Oh, the HUMANITY! Oh, the ANGST!

BRUJAH: What's an "angst"?

SET: Oh, it'sss a kind of a crossss, but with a loopy bit on top. My guysss love 'em.

BRUJAH: Oh. [pause] I don't get it ...

TOREADOR: Philistines.

[scream from outside]

TZIMISCE: Vat the hell vas that?

NOSFERATU: Sounded like Saulot. HEY! YOU GUYS SHUT UP OUT THERE!

[door opens]

TREMERE: Oh, sorry, uhhh ... Saulot says to say that, uhhh, he ... had to leave -- real quick, like ... uhhh, but he was REAL happy about it, and, uhhh, he was glad he caught up with you guys again.

NOSFERATU: Is it me, or does he look kinda pale?

VENTRUE: Who cares? Getting back to this curse thing ...

LASOMBRA: So, are we his direct Progeny, then? 'Cos if so, how come we don't know where he is now?

MALKAV: Whose fault is it that we can't find him? WHO CARRIES THE BLAME! [cackles]

RAVNOS: No, no, no, he made some OTHER guys first, and then THEY made US ...

TOREADOR: And he repented of the Horror he had unleashed upon the Earth! He banished himself from the sight of ALL!

MALKAV: He made some other guys, who must have made other guys, except he killed the first other guys, whom he replaced by some other other guys, although if math holds true, they had to have had some other other other guys, but instead you've got us. It's just... just... INSANE! I like it.

TOREADOR: If you must.

VENTRUE: But how come we're all so different?

TOREADOR: The Curse works in Mysterious Ways ...

NOSFERATU: Yeah! I used to be the most handsome man in the world ...

RAVNOS: Shut the hell up, Ralph.

LASOMBRA: And I had a reflection!

BRUJAH: Can I have been a philosopher?

RAVNOS: And Toreador used to have taste ...

MALKAV: And I used to be insane!

[silence]

VENTRUE: I think we might be pushing our luck here.

SUTEKH: Any BETTER ideasss?

VENTRUE: Well, let's put it to a vote, then. Magick?

TREMERE: Aye.

VENTRUE: That's one.

[silence]

VENTRUE: Okay, travellers from a parallel dimension?

MALKAV: Twenty-three.

VENTRUE: Your multiple personalities don't count, Malkav.

MALKAV: We resnt that. But believe what you will.

VENTRUE: The chosen son of God? ... Set, Lasombra, Tzimisce. Any others?

HASSAM: Aye.

VENTRUE: Okay, that's four. Cursed children of a psychopathic greengrocer? ... That's four, plus myself, five.

[groans]

LASOMBRA: Swinging the vote, you black-balling bureaucrat!

VENTRUE: If you don't like it, go and form your OWN group.

LASOMBRA: Maybe I will.

VENTRUE: Okay, then, I charge all of you to disperse this data to your Progeny, and I'll have MY people send out memos in triplicate to YOUR people before the start of the next fiscal year. Meeting adjourned! [banging noise, general muttering and shuffling] Drinks anyone?

MALKAV: Tremere must be full, I think he just ate. [insane cackling laughter]

TZIMISCE: Vy did you throw him out ze window, Brujah?

BRUJAH: I dunno, man, just something I had to do ... [sulking] none of you understand me, anyway ...

HASSAM: [whispered] Hey, Tremere!

TREMERE: What?

HASSAM: Saulot -- you did him in, didn't you? You snuffed him. Sucked him dry.

TREMERE: Uhhh ... yeah, I did.

[silence]

HASSAM: What's it like?

 

edited by Chris W.

 

Ye Gods... I can't believe Angelfire has kept that up for all these years....

 

The Auld Grump

Edited by TheAuldGrump
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The sheer dudeliness of VtM kind of got to me too. I was trying to read some of their fiction and I'm not entirely sure it's passed the Bachdel Test even a hundred pages in. There was a dude and another dude and a whole bunch of dudes and then some businessdudes and some more dudes doing dudely things and a dude on a motorcycle and yet more dudes, and then two ladies having a trope-laden social catfight about their husbands / boyfriends (oh, dear), and one creepy dude watching a little street gamine grow up and there's no way THAT could end really badly or go super creepy, and a whole bunch more dudes glowering in a dudely fashion and then some more dude stuff.

 

I take some pleasure in having written a story loaded with (I hope)  interesting characters, almost all of whom are women because A) it fits the motifs of the disregarded and hidden elements of society and B) why not.

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Pingo have you read Agyar by Steven Brust? It is a short but extremely creepy vampire book. I don't think the word vampire is ever used though. Warning - have yourself a glass of something soothing afterward because it is really disturbing. The writing is outstanding and the book is well worth reading. 

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Another oldie, preserved in the amber of the internet -

 

(A Ventrue's Guide to Manipulating Nearly Everyone You Ever Will Meet, Version Two)

 

First, be forewarned that these rules are not hard and fast. They are in fact rather soft and slow. Not everyone will react the same way to being manipulated (or out-and-out ordered) to do stuff. Get to know the person you are manipulating. This does not necessarily mean being friendly with them: that may in fact be counter-productive if they themselves are manipulative people. Find out about them from a variety of third-person sources. And don't limit yourself to sources you trust. Sometimes you might hear something that will be useful, even if it isn't entirely true. Never underestimate the power of the Rumor, young Ventrue. Never.

 

Second, cover your broccoli. If (when) something goes wrong, have a way out. Hopefully several. We didn't get to our position by letting neonates make us look bad - not to mention the damage that could be done to your own reputation.

 

Without further ado, let's get the little stuff out of the way first.

 

Like mortals.

Easy as pie. Dominate, condition, use Presence, do whatever you want, it's hard to go wrong with these worms. But don't get overconfident. You still have to have that back door available. Not only is it a bad habit to get into, leaving yourself open, but if something does go wrong, it usually gone badly wrong and you have Ye Olde Inquisition or a gang of wolves on your tail. Don't sweat blood over the cattle, but be careful. They have this nasty habit of stampeding....

 

OK, now on to real people.

 

The Tremere:

First priority with the Tremere is to not tell them anything. Not necessarily because you don't want them to know it - but just because they want to find it out themselves. Besides, it's sort of an unspoken agreement, so don't expect them to be real forthcoming either. They are the best at manipulating people, aside from us of course, and it's a real game to them, trying to be better than us. Futile, really, but fun to watch.

 

The hook with the Tremere is almost always knowledge. You offer to tell them what's going on and most of them will jump at the chance. Occult stuff usually works too. Be sure you know what you're doing before you offer them any magic books or anything like that - those have a habit of coming back to haunt deal-makers who didn't know what they were dealing with. Sure, you get rid of that pesky Mage, but look what your chief rival has up his sleeve now.

 

Which leads to the next Tremere hook. They like to think that they are the smartest vampires in the Camarilla, and you know what? They probably are. In fact, it's almost a given that the majority of the Tremere are going to be significantly smarter than you. Your job in manipulating them is obviously not going to be out-thinking them, because you can't. Feign ignorance, and let them explain things to you, thinking that they have a willing dupe. It's also almost a given that they'll let drop more than they wanted to. Then you figure something out that they haven't, and you've got them.

 

The Nosferatu:

Don't knock them. Ever. Not even in the privacy of your own Haven. Never. Do I sound a little paranoid? Listen, when you're dealing with the Nosferatu, there are two kinds of paranoia: total and insufficient. If you have ever said anything about them, like "rat-face" or "useless sewer-crawlers" even when you were asleep, you better not be counting on them for anything.

 

That said, there is only one way to manipulate a Nosferatu and it's very simple. Ask what the Nosferatu wants, and then give it to them. If you have never crossed them, they won't cross you first. It's called trust. You may have heard of it once or twice.

 

Let me tell you something else. It's possible to betray the Nosferatus' trust and get away with it. It's just very, very hard. They stick together. They have something called "clan unity". You may have heard of that once or twice too, probably from a Tremere. No, we don't go in for that sort of thing either.

 

So how do you go about screwing a Nosferatu pawn who has served their usefulness? Do it indirectly, and be vociferous in your defense of the guy. Insist that what happened to him (social ostracism works far too well, as does yanking material possessions or herd members) was a real injustice and that you offer your sympathy to them. But no help.

 

Nothing they can do about it, and they still love you. You can do this over and over and over again if you're good enough. But on the other hand, if you have to read this to figure out how to do it, you aren't good enough. Better just go with the "trust" theory.

 

The Gangrel:

The Gangrel are difficult to manipulate, not because of any traditions or problems we have with them, it's just that they themselves are so overtly unmanipulative that any attempts to pussyfoot around the subject feels out of place in a conversation with them.

 

The way to manipulate a Gangrel is to lay everything on the line, or to present the impression that you have. The problem lies in attempting to give them the impression that you have told them everything you know about a situation when in fact you have left out several vital facts. If you lie to a Gangrel, lie with confidence and remember, always remember that back door. Nasty things, with big friends sometimes.

 

The Malkavians:

The first thing to understand about the Malkavians is that they are crazy.

 

The second thing to understand about the Malkavians is that they are not stupid.

 

Do not patronize them. Do not pretend to see things that you don't, trying to play along. They will know you are lying and react poorly to you. Many say there is no way to manipulate a Malkavian. This is not the case. Malkavians are often lost and childlike. If they put their trust in you, you can tell them to do almost anything, and they will try. How, you ask, can you get that trust? I don't have a single clue. But if you get it, use it before it goes away, or just accept it this once and let it slide, hoping that it might come back.

 

Others believe themselves to be as mercenary as the Giovanni - pay them off in tinfoil and bits of string. Don't forget to bargain with them. Illusions are very important to the Malkavians. Heck, let them prank you once or twice, if it's nothing violent. Laugh it up, or get really incensed over it, whichever they expect.

 

If you get a Malkavian in a state where you think they might do something you want, consider what you want them to do. You wouldn't send a Toreador to clean out a nest of Sabbat. You'd send some Gangrel and maybe a Tremere. Just the same, you wouldn't send a Malkavian to do something like receive a visiting elder or take a message to the Justicar. Think back to all your plans that went awry because of Malkavians. What did they do? What they do best - spread chaos, mayhem and madness.

 

Siccing a Malkavian on a plot is the easiest, simplest and surest way of complicating it and introducing elements that the plotter(s) probably didn't think of.

 

The Brujah:

Don't snort. Shut up. You think you're above that rabble? Shut up. You don't know broccoli. Brujah are fast and tough and make excellent pawns. You've got a few options with them, too.

 

If you can manage it, get rumors circulating that performing action X would seriously piss off the Prince or other elder (even the Brujah elder ironically enough.) Wait for nature to take it's course. The disadvantage to this is that it may take a while, and in many instances (the above- mentioned Sabbat nest), it just wouldn't make sense and would probably put attention on the wrong person (you) anyway. Hope you had that back door ready.

 

Be straight with them. Don't be ingratiating, don't try to get into their good graces (they haven't got any). If you have the power to do so, offer them small concessions. It doesn't matter how small they are - it only matters that you act like they are large. If you act as if it tears your heart out to give them $1.50, then the price probably won't go any higher. They don't really want anything from us except to see us squirm. So squirm. Who cares what they think?

 

The Toreador:

Believe it or not, this may be the hardest clan to consistently manipulate. Why? Well, first of all, their only hook is art. There's really no way you can use that hook to reel them in. They're probably so entrenched in the local art scene that even if you held 200 poets captive and threatened to off them all, the Toreador would probably just turn up their noses and denounce them as "passe". What's more, they often resent the fact that while they are "clearly" the finest Kindred around, while they are out carousing and having a good time, we are getting things done. Sorry, but I don't have anything really substantive to say about the Toreador except the best way to deal with them is to sit on that rumor mill and listen to what's going on. Reputation is everything to them, so if you can get a stranglehold on one of those, you've got a pawn for unlife.

 

The Ventrue:

You cannot manipulate a Ventrue.

 

Trust me.

 

The Auld Grump

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Red’s off with friends to Anime Central.

 

She just beat her record for being recognized at a convention. She was still waiting in line to pick up her badge when a guy said “This is gonna sound weird - are you Red?”

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9 minutes ago, Pingo said:

Red’s off with friends to Anime Central.

 

She just beat her record for being recognized at a convention. She was still waiting in line to pick up her badge when a guy said “This is gonna sound weird - are you Red?”

She's not just famous, she's internet famous! ::D:

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Soon an invasion of small people armed with paint brushes will be piling through the door.

 

So, I need to decide - work on the chaos dwarf/fire giant - where Sam can see it being worked on, and can go 'Hey! I saw that being worked on!' or keep it hidden so that it is a complete surprise?

 

The Auld Grump - as a GM, I think Sam will better appreciate seeing it being worked on, even if she does not know why at the time. *EDIT* A pretty simple mod - I am giving the fire giant a big helmet with a skull in.

Edited by TheAuldGrump
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30,000 words and it's not even about a PC. It's about someone who investigates a PC. The PC shows up in the story, eventually, but a whole bunch of other people are gone through first, giving multiple perspectives on the PC.

 

The GM (or I guess the ST) asked to use the MC as an NPC, and I said sure, it's your game world. They'll probably use most of the characters as at least minor NPCs, TBH.

 

I enjoyed typing all the acronyms here. ::D:

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Chaoswolf said:

60d917aad704b1cdd367eea41708682e--random-humor-werewolf.jpg.90ef2a49169bd86c07f02615aebc8685.jpg

 

In the World of Darkness vampires are total wimps compared to werewolves, it’s true.

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But, fortunately, it is easy to get the werewolves to fight with their traditional archenemy, the werewolves....

 

The Auld Grump

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Lunch was some yummy roasted veggies, and some depressingly over cooked chicken. Especially since I'm usually so much better about cooking chicken. Ah well. Next week's lunch boxes will be better. 

 

I currently have a corgi in my lap, :wub: which means I'm stuck here...  Oh... the horror... ::P:

 

Leftover taco stuff for dinner. Debating watching more Jessica Jones or doing some painting tonight. 

 

Oh, and Mrs. Hamster is much much better. Not sure I mentioned that here yet. 

 

Just now, TheAuldGrump said:

But, fortunately, it is easy to get the werewolves to fight with their traditional archenemy, the werewolves....

 

The Auld Grump

Like other werewolves, or like chasing their own tails? 

Edited by Crowley
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