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Jeneki

Saga second edition

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I just picked up the second edition rulebook. My local gaming group is converting to second edition after being hooked on the original for years (a number of them were at the Adepticon Grand Melee tournament).

 

I've often referred to Saga as "The Historical Wargame for Fantasy Players".  Even though it has historical armies, it has plenty of fantasy elements and over-the-top stuff going on.  At least that's the hook I use to pull in fantasy players who normally won't give anything historical a chance.  :)

 

The new rulebook is smaller than I expected, but with enough detail to cover the situations I've run into so far.  I like how combat abilities interact with resolution steps; everything is clearly defined where and when it takes place, making it easier to resolve abilities in the correct order.  As an example: Lets say I play an ability that adds 4 combat dice, but another ability reduces my dice to 0.  The order this happens is very important (I either have 4 or 0 dice depending on the order you do those in), but thankfully the steps are cleanly laid out so I can avoid a rules dispute.

 

The initial army list has 12 factions including several supplements from the original.  I'll need to wait a bit for my crusade lists to get released, but otherwise it has everything I need right off the bat.  The tournament players in my group seem to be happy about some army changes intended to even out some of the extreme matchups (certain abilities could be a bit too game-defining in specific scenarios or against specific enemies).  Although i will say I was very pleased with the overall balance in first edition, most notably that armies from the original book were still competitive against newer factions, even at the highest level of competitive play.

 

Anyone else playing this?

Edited by Jeneki
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Yeah upon closer inspection of the rulebook introduction, it mentions a fantasy expansion (orcs) and an ancients expansion (Argonauts). Seems like they have big plans.  I am ok with mixing and matching all of this.

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Have you been able to get some games in of 2nd Edition yet, Jeneki?

I'm hoping to put together a pre-Roman invasion army of Gauls and play it against some friends who have armies of a similar time period. Also wanting to do a couple of armies in 10mm in order to have a micro version of it for wait times at cons, etc.

I've not played 1st or 2nd yet but I've heard good things and watched a couple of demo games for 2nd.

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I've gotten in eight games of Saga 2 so far.  Around half dark ages and half crusades.

 

I like the Crusades forces better than Age of Vikings.  Saga 2 forces were already a big step up from Saga 1, and it seems like the writers took everything they learned from designing Age of Vikings and refined it even further to make Crusades battle boards interesting and fun.

 

From my observations, I prefer armies with varied abilities to the more specialized ones.  Specialization is nice for taking one aspect and pushing it hard, but if it gets countered or the dice go wonky (and mine always go wonky) there isn't enough to fall back on.

 

The biggest disappointment so far is the lack of official scenarios and more interesting terrain.  For friendly games we play it however we want, but once the tournaments start appearing playing the same mission every time and treating buildings as "generic rough terrain" is going to get old.  A campaigns book was mentioned a while back which I'm hoping will solve this.

 

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So I've recently been seduced into Warlord Games stuff and I'm intrigued by pretty much everything.  I'm not clear on the relationship (or difference) between Saga and Hail Caeser!  Are they two separate ruleset groups, or is Saga a more precise revision of Hail Caeser?  Or the reverse?  It seemed to me that HC was the one that covered Crusades and I thought Saga was viking-specific. 

 

If you can help me figure out the difference, I'd appreciate it. 

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I don't play either but have considered grabbing the rules for both. Hail Ceasar is a larger scale wargame using units of minis in blocks with possibly 100s of minis on the table. Saga is more of a warband scale where you have 10 or so individual minis running around fighting. I haven't looked close enough at the rules to know if there's any similarity in stats and gameplay.

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5 minutes ago, Zink said:

I don't play either but have considered grabbing the rules for both. Hail Ceasar is a larger scale wargame using units of minis in blocks with possibly 100s of minis on the table. Saga is more of a warband scale where you have 10 or so individual minis running around fighting. I haven't looked close enough at the rules to know if there's any similarity in stats and gameplay.

 

That makes a lot of sense.  Thanks, I was wondering why they seemed to have two different games for the same thing.  I wasn't actually picky about which of the Warlord Games I started with (primary choices being Hail Caeser, Pike and Shotte, Black Powder, and Bolt Action) but it turned out to be Bolt Action because it was the most readily available.  I bought rather a lot of it at Reapercon, but also got the softback rulebook for Hail Caeser.  I'm enchanted by all the games and models.  I'm not even sure I care if I ever actually play a game, they just look fun to collect. 

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Be careful, those Warlord rule books (specifically Black Powder, Hail Caesar and Pike and Shotte) are very dangerous books due to the large number of extremely pretty pictures that they contain.  You may be tempted to buy as many as 20 miniatures!

 

As far as I know Warlords games aren't really related to Saga at all.  They are derivatives of GW's Warmaster if I remember correctly.

 

Finally, there is a second edition of Black Powder that either is coming out soon or maybe was just released.

 

Actually finally, if you want to take a look at some other rule sets that you could use before you've got whole armies ready for the table, you could look at some of Too Fat Lardies rules (Sharp Practice is supposed to be quite fun), or some of Daniel Mersey's rules published by Osprey.

Edited by lowlylowlycook
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11 minutes ago, lowlylowlycook said:

Be careful, those Warlord rule books (specifically Black Powder, Hail Caesar and Pike and Shotte) are very dangerous books due to the large number of extremely pretty pictures that they contain.  You may be tempted to buy as many as 20 miniatures!

 

Yes.  Many 20s.  I saw that BP2 was imminent, but I can wait on that since it wasn't front of the list.  I just hope the hardback will still come with a (or the) free figure. 

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On 9/21/2018 at 4:41 PM, Zink said:

I don't play either but have considered grabbing the rules for both. Hail Ceasar is a larger scale wargame using units of minis in blocks with possibly 100s of minis on the table. Saga is more of a warband scale where you have 10 or so individual minis running around fighting. I haven't looked close enough at the rules to know if there's any similarity in stats and gameplay.

 

This is mostly correct.  Hail Caesar is large army scale with emphasis on command and control, while Saga is mid-scale (40-50 figures for an average game) with emphasis on army flavor giving you different combat options.  Both are good games worth trying out.

Edited by Jeneki
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