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Rainbow Sculptor

Adventuring Alice

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What materieal are you printing in and can it be used for lost wax casting (many pastics and resins can)?  You know where I'm going with this...:B):

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Huh.  With the translucent plastic, I guess you could leave the potion bottles un-primered (if you brush on primer everywhere else), and then do a wash effect on them instead?  Or is the translucent plastic just what the 3D printer works with, rather than a specific choice?

Also, what scale would this work out to be?  The figure is 32mm tall, but it's of a *child*, so presumably would be shorter than full-grown adult characters at the same scale.  (Unless, that is, she's already taken a bite out of the "Eat Me" cake, and therefore has just grown to larger-than-Alice-sized, in which case I suppose scale for a mini is an entirely subjective matter.)

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2 hours ago, TaleSpinner said:

What materieal are you printing in and can it be used for lost wax casting (many pastics and resins can)?  You know where I'm going with this...:B):

The manufacturer of the printer has not found a loss wax castable resin that works well with this printer.  It doesn't mean that such a resin doesn't exist, but he warned us that he has not found one that will completely burn out.  That said,  it will work fine for prototyping, and this is an area that the form2 shines.   It is only about $12- $20 to get a model printed on a form2.

 

 

Edited by emmagine
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Well, we got a little ahead of ourselves and primed her before all the resin had been cleaned/cured on the surface which made for some rough surface texture. Pretty much botched the back, I can't even bring myself to show that part to you guys yet lol!

 

Aside from the texture issues from the primer and a couple of the supports it's good to see the proportions at scale. I do think the potion bottles will need to be bigger, the upper hand will likely need some extra bulk/support, and there's a lot of little minor changes I can make to allow us to not need 40+ supports to print her. All in all I think it was a good test print, and helped point out some areas I can improve on.

IMG_20190208_112253.jpg

Edited by Rainbow Sculptor
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8 minutes ago, Rainbow Sculptor said:

Well, we got a little ahead of ourselves and primed her before all the resin had been cleaned/cured on the surface which made for some rough surface texture. Pretty much botched the back, I can't even bring myself to show that part to you guys yet. Aside from the texture issues from the primer and a couple of the supports it's good to see the proportions at scale. I do think the option bottles will need to be bigger, the years hand will likely need some extra bulk/support, and there's a lot of little minor changes I can make to allow us to not need 40+ supports to print her. All in all I think it was a good test print, and helped point out some areas I can improve on.

IMG_20190208_112253.jpg

So this is my first actual print on our printer.   I learned a few things in the process.   

 

1.   Let the resin cure.  Then let it cure some more.  Then alcohol bath & rinse.... THEN you can prime.   My first prime came out all sticky, and we had to try to clean it off.  It wouldn't clean off, and left little bits of gunk all over the figure.   

2.  Most of the time it is better to edit the model so it doesn't need supports, than it is to just add supports.   I suspect companies that buy 3d models have their print guy clean up the models, instead of adding lots of supports.     Lesson learned, and we will do it differently going forward.   You can see the effect of supportso n her legs, on skirt in front of her near the bottom,  On the bottom of the belt buckle a little, and in a variety of other places that could have had minor changes instead of supports.   

3.  Learning how to do good prints may be as difficult as learning zbrush itself.

 

Edited by emmagine
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I hate butting in here, 'cuz I've absolutely no skill related to anything going on here, but...

 

Could you not "slice" her up a bit to reduce the number of supports needed, or does that needlessly complicate things?  I apologize if you addressed that somewhere and I missed it.

 

Y'know, I'm pretty sure I'd buy one of her if she ever made it to market.

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1 hour ago, strawhat said:

I hate butting in here, 'cuz I've absolutely no skill related to anything going on here, but...

 

Could you not "slice" her up a bit to reduce the number of supports needed, or does that needlessly complicate things?  I apologize if you addressed that somewhere and I missed it.

 

Y'know, I'm pretty sure I'd buy one of her if she ever made it to market.

It's a good question.  (She'll be going to market, somewhere.  Even if we do it ourselves).   We could break her into multiple pieces.   But it isn't necessary in this case.   A big part of learning to produce mini's is learning how to manage casting.   Working digitally involves learning how to plan for printing.   We've already made the necessary adjustments, and we learned.  Christie will be posting an update here in a couple minutes with a very low resolution print that we did real quick (I have to go back to work tomorrow and there wasn't time for another high res one).  But it already looks better than the high res, by a good margin.

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So, we spent our morning analyzing what we did wrong, what was working and what needed fixing. What was printer problem vs sculpt problem. After that I went through the entire figure and sharpened edges and dug trenches deeper. I doubled the height of the bowtie, increased the size of the potion bottles by at least %50, and did minor tweaks to angles throughout the figures edges to help minimize the need for supports. 

I will say that seeing where supports were needed and why really helped and I learned a lot about my sculpting approach going forward both for the overall composition decisions and the specific details. 

 

We did a second test print very quickly (only 1.5 hours) at a much lower resolution but with the changes we made to the printing angle and the updates to the actual model I'm really happy with the results!

 

 

pixlr_20190208203312591.jpg

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That turned out quite nicely. Congratulations on being willing to learn and change. The hair to bow solution turned out very nicely. I too, would like to get one as following this has been fun!

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I'm very curious what sorts of considerations have to be made to a 3D model to make it more easily printable.  From the context, I'm guessing that since the printer is (I suppose) "scanning" the figure up from the bottom, that sharp overhangs are a bad thing, because it can't start applying plastic in empty space and then connecting it to the main body several layers up from that point?

Even the low-res mini looks great to me!  At my level of painting skill, any additional fine detail would probably be wasted on me anyway.

I really love the drapes and folds of the back of the dress, and the fantastically over-large hair!  This would be a joy to paint up, I'm sure.  :)

 

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23 minutes ago, Jordan Peacock said:

I'm very curious what sorts of considerations have to be made to a 3D model to make it more easily printable.  From the context, I'm guessing that since the printer is (I suppose) "scanning" the figure up from the bottom, that sharp overhangs are a bad thing, because it can't start applying plastic in empty space and then connecting it to the main body several layers up from that point?

Even the low-res mini looks great to me!  At my level of painting skill, any additional fine detail would probably be wasted on me anyway.

I really love the drapes and folds of the back of the dress, and the fantastically over-large hair!  This would be a joy to paint up, I'm sure.  :)

 

 

I love hearing painters excited to get a brush on her! To answer your question, the angle of the print I've learned makes a HUGE difference in the number and placement of supports. We ended up printing her laying on her back at about a 45 degree angle and slightly rotated towards her left side. This offered less overhangs which need support and kept the necessary ones to the underside or easily extractable/unnoticeable places. 

 

As far as the sculpting side of it goes every time I'm creating an overhang I try to slope it down and into the figure. For instance, the front bunch of skirts is a massive overhang. It needed support or first go around and caused massive texture issues in the final print. I went back and added more material behind it sloping downward and inward to eliminate the need for support along with the printing angle decision we made. It doesn't stand out or compromise my overall composition, I don't think it will make any significant difference to the painter, and it resolved our texture/post processing problem. 

 

Small changes like that throughout the figure can really add up, dropping our original number of required supports by about a third. The angle change also meant that the print lines did not run directly horizontally across the figure which did a lot for overall presentation. 

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3 hours ago, Rainbow Sculptor said:

I will say that seeing where supports were needed and why really helped and I learned a lot about my sculpting approach going forward both for the overall composition decisions and the specific details. 

I get warm fuzzies about a sculptor when I hear them say this.  Thingiverse is full of tons of beautiful designs that are barely printable, if they're printable at all.  Of course, you've got previous sculpting experience and experts at your fingertips, so I would expect nothing less from you. 
 

2 hours ago, Jordan Peacock said:

I'm very curious what sorts of considerations have to be made to a 3D model to make it more easily printable.  From the context, I'm guessing that since the printer is (I suppose) "scanning" the figure up from the bottom, that sharp overhangs are a bad thing, because it can't start applying plastic in empty space and then connecting it to the main body several layers up from that point?

That's the gist of it, but it can be further defined by the printer itself.  For example, an FDM printer (the type that uses filament) with a large nozzle of 0.8mm (typical is 0.4mm) and a thick layer height is lower resolution and thus more visible layers, but is capable of a far bigger angle of overhang than the same printer using a 0.2mm nozzle and a thin layer height.  Resin printers will generally have a higher resolution than an FDM printer, but the trade off is usually a smaller build volume. 

You also have to be careful that your model has a complete mesh, otherwise the slicing software that converts the model file to the printer code will throw errors, or look like it works, but completely miss parts when you print. 

Bottom line is knowing the capabilities of the printer you're printing on can make a huge difference in the quality of your prints. 

 

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