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Froggy the Great

Randomness XV: 'tis a silly place.

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1 hour ago, Pingo said:

What issues are people having with Bones Black? I have an owlbear in hand and it seems like a promising material to me.

 

What I've seen on Facebook was complaints about the mold lines on the arms and the gaps at the shoulders. But from the pictures I saw posted with those complaints, the mold lines were normal mold lines, not even in hard to clean up places, and the gaps really weren't that bad. As in I'd be comfortable filling them, and I panic about that sort of thing because I'm terrible with green stuff.

 

I will say that I'd prefer Bones in general to be unassembled, but that's mainly because I don't like trying to poke a brush into some of the spaces that are created once parts are glued together. But I'm also of the "eh, whatever" camp in that it isn't a big enough problem for me to really care.

Edited by Unruly
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6 hours ago, Crowley said:

People seem extra cranky lately. 

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case it's merely frustration over not being able to get into a painting frame of mind or a writing one for that matter. 

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1 hour ago, eldamir said:

I just got mine yesterday and haven't opened the blister, but from what I've seen on other social media, people aren't as much upset about needing to gap-fill, but that the troll comes pre-assembled *and* needing gap-filling .. Seems they'd like it assembled and gapless, or unassembled and (potentially) gappy .. but not both..

 

I don't have the troll but I have a surprisingly large number of the owlbear.  If the pre-assembly is good, that's one thing.  But if it isn't and needs to be disassembled it is no easy task.  I cannot pry any of the bits of the owlbear apart without using force significant enough to risk damage.  For the owlbear that's not a big issue because the fit seems pretty good, but if the troll is very gappy or poorly fitting and is as solidly glued then I could see it causing many gripes.  It would be better, in that case, for them to come unassembled since it would be less work to not have to undo the glue and re-assemble.  

 

This is without touching on issues where assembly is... not so great... as we saw with some of the initial Bones kickstarter bits, which prompted an early debate over the merits of pre-assembly.  Reaper stated then that the objective was to keep things simple for potential buyers, which makes sense, but I have always felt this may be more trouble than it's really worth and unassembled might be the better route.  I made my case years ago, so I presume their conclusion differed from mine, but I can see why the troll figure might generate (or regenerate) some gripes.  

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I was a meany last night, and gave one of the important clues to Duncan's character... not the one that is free to run around - the one that is locked in a cage in the cellars of the House of Commons.... ::P:

 

And the only person that he has had a chance to mention it to is his gaoler. (Who didn't believe him, go figure....)

 

The party is negotiating with the under dwellers in the capitol city - looks like the wererats - or at least one cluster of them - is the best way to go.

 

The Auld Grump

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29 minutes ago, buglips*the*goblin said:

 

I'm not dealing with the store.  See, that's what I thought - that when I bought it they would deliver it from the closest location if stock was present since the store does deliveries.  Stock is present.  So I figured 3-5 days or something.  Instead it appears to be crossing the country by dogsled.  I'm annoyed by this, but since I didn't need the TV urgently, it was already paid for, and I needed it delivered then I figured fine, wait it out.  I would be unlikely to use them again, but so long as the item had no issues or damage, okay.  But if they ask for my opinion, well, I figure in that case they should have it.  And if they don't like it, perhaps they shouldn't have asked.  

IMNSHO :

They asked.

If they get honest feedback they have the option to accept it and make the necessary changes to improve their customer service

or

Ignore it and watch their already shrinking customer base [for reasons detailed earlier in this discussion] dwindle away.

GEM

Who hasn't bought anything from Best Buy for over a decade because Fry's [not the grocery stores, the Electronics Stores]

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21cc7b291aa24243d5f9147fe0ac380a093e54f53d2514b35e1ca88d1e63b311.jpg.505137fec7b8516000f154bb680574ae.jpg

 

My move was neither smooth nor easy, but it's over with, so the less said about it, the better.

(Well, mostly over, we still need to unpack and get organized in the new place, but that's not a big deal since it doesn't have a 'you need to be out of this place by...' tag on it.)

I'm catching up on stuff so likes, condolences, and good for you where appropriate. Also, you've been a little naughty, too. Let's put a stop to that, shall we?

 

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RANDOM!

 

New phrase to use if someone is taking entirely too long on the toilet: "Do you need me to call a midwife?"

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Cyradis said:

RANDOM!

 

New phrase to use if someone is taking entirely too long on the toilet: "Do you need me to call a midwife?"

 

 

How to phrase this delicately.....

A certain two word phrase comes to mind, where the first word is No and the second word is >the subject of the above referenced post<.

-

As a suffer with [fortunately] intermittent OIC there have been times........

GEM

I used to really like dried figs.

Now, not so much

Edited by Green Eyed Monster
Addendum
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On 2/6/2019 at 4:36 PM, sumbloke said:

Less than half an hour left before I start my four-day weekend...

So that was a bit of a mixed bag...

SWMBO had a work function in a resort in the shadow of Mt Kosciusko (the highest peak in mainland Australia), so I'd taken Thursday/Friday off work to go there with her. My plan for killing time on Thursday was to climb up to the peak. After some difficulties with park entry fees (I'd left my wallet behind because I wouldn't need it, right?) I was about to head up towards the parking area at Charlotte Pass when I heard thunder and saw rainclouds...

So I thought I'd have a go on Friday before I had to pick SWMBO up from her retreat. This time I paid the entry fee and drove up to the Pass, but went through some rain on my way up so decided to call off the climb itself. I did snap a few photos from around the pass, though.

 

On the upside, on Thursday night I found a place that cooked a delicious steak. It was marinaded beautifully and cooked to perfection. We also had a look at Yarrangobilly Caves as a detour from the way home. They were very nice. SWMBO got a bit annoyed at me because I was able to answer most of the guide's questions. I gave the others a chance to answer, I swear.

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1 hour ago, Lord of the Dish Pit said:
8 hours ago, Crowley said:

People seem extra cranky lately. 

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case it's merely frustration over not being able to get into a painting frame of mind or a writing one for that matter. 

Mine is currently stemming from <redacted> and this class that I didn't want to take, feel like I shouldn't f*ing need to take, and yet have to take. At least there's only one more week. And inevitably when I'm doing something like this, my mind wants to focus on anything and everything else. 

 

Plus I over spiced the chili, my bride has been over critical today, and to get away from it all I've spent the last 2 hours in a coffee shop after an hour at the park with the dogs. Coffee shop closes at 7... I guess I'll head home then. 

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3 hours ago, Pingo said:

What issues are people having with Bones Black? I have an owlbear in hand and it seems like a promising material to me.

As others have already said, it’s more about the troll than the owlbear.

Since I’m still waiting on my troll I don’t know how valid the complaints are.

 

From what I’ve seen on Facebook, biggest complaint seems to be gaps on where the arms meet the shoulders, followed by mold lines, followed by legs being slightly bent so the feet won’t fit properly on the footprints on the base.

 

Gaps seem to be a mixed bag of severity, but nothing a little green stuff couldn’t fix.

Some of the pics have shown very noticeable mold lines but they’re in places where they can be easily shaved off.

Haven’t seen many folks complain about the bent legs, and one poster said the hot water/cold water dunk did the trick.

 

So far I haven’t seen anything that has me overly concerned.

 

Not sure if the complaints are coming from folks new to the hobby who haven’t much experience yet with these issues, or if they’re coming from folks who don’t know how to manage their expectations or are intentionally trying to be obtuse.

Edited by Darsc Zacal
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7 minutes ago, Darsc Zacal said:

As others have already said, it’s more about the troll than the owlbear.

Since I’m still waiting on my troll I don’t know how valid the complaints are.

 

From what I’ve seen on Facebook, biggest complaint seems to be gaps on where the arms meet the shoulders, followed by mold lines, followed by legs being slightly bent so the feet won’t fit properly on the footprints on the base.

 

Gaps seem to be a mixed bag of severity, but nothing a little green stuff couldn’t fix.

Some of the pics have shown very noticeable mold lines but they’re in places where they can be easily shaved off.

Haven’t seen many folks complain about the bent legs, and one poster said the hot water/cold water dunk did the trick.

 

So far I haven’t seen anything that has me overly concerned.

 

Not sure if the complaints are coming from folks new to the hobby who haven’t much experience yet with these issues, or if they’re coming from folks who don’t know how to manage their expectations or are intentionally trying to be obtuse.

 

It sounds like all of these people need to assemble one of the large heritage dragons or some of the stuff put out by Ral Partha in the 80s.  I have a giant which had an underarm gap so big i actually used a spare eldar head from my warhammer bits to fill most of it rather than investing the required amount of greenstuff.  Today's minis are so much better in both mold lines and gaps that there isnt even an issue. 

 

And I especially find humor in people complaining about minor issues with their free toy.  They dont have to keep it, i am sure that there are others who will be more than happy to take it off their hands.

 

And one more reason why I don't do Facebook. 

 

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1 hour ago, Corsair said:

Who us? Naughty?

 

Everything I have done, or will do, is in complete accordance with both the religious and secular law of The Free Republic of Cobra Island.  Anything not covered by said law is covered by my diplomatic immunity conferred upon me as a representative of The Commander's Benevolent Government.  I cannot therefore stand accused under any definition of naughty.  Now you know how I managed to win my lawsuit against Santa Claus and not only get awarded my 2018 and future presents, but also any presents due in previous years and 3 million wooden nutcrackers as compensation for pain and suffering.  

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All due respect, regarding the defenses of the Bones Black troll problems that people are reporting, but if you directly quote from the Reaper press release regarding Bones Black, I think that even "minor" complaints are valid. I've made bold the points that I think are especially relevant below. (I snipped stuff at the end that I did not think was relevant.)

On 12/30/2018 at 5:41 PM, Reaper Ron said:

We’re excited to announce an amazing new product line for 2019 and beyond: Reaper Bones Black!

 

Since launching our Reaper Bones miniatures in 2012, Reaper Miniatures has produced and shipped over 25 million plastic models to gamers and painters around the world. But despite the success of Reaper Bones, we continually look for ways to improve our products. We’ve taken everything that makes Reaper Bones Miniatures so successful and enhanced it.  We’ve always listened to our customers, and after years of feedback, we made Reaper Bones Miniatures even better with Reaper Bones Black.

•    High Detail – Reaper Bones Black holds more detail and is equal to resin or metal

•    Rigid Material – weapons and thin parts are much more rigid and hold their shape, but still flexible enough to withstand constant handling

•    Improved Pigmentation – Reaper Bones Black models are tinted dark grey for ease of painting and viewing

•    Reduced Seam and Shift Lines - produced with high-grade steel molds, Reaper Bones Black models are cleaner, crisper, and require less cleaning

 

But we didn’t change everything. Customers can expect the same great features with Reaper Bones Black as they do with Reaper Bones.

•    Amazing sculpts – created by the best artists in the gaming industry

•    Consumer-friendly pricing – Reaper Bones Black gives customers great value for their dollars

•    Wide selection – Reaper Bones Black will continue to provide consumers a variety of options to suit all types of gaming. \

•    Painter Friendly – made for painters and gamers, by painters and gamers.

•    Ready to Paint – just a quick rinse with soap and water and you’re ready to paint

•    Scaled to Fit – Reaper Bones Black models are the same size and scale as all Reaper miniatures and all modern gaming models

•    Integral Bases – Reaper Bones Black models come with integral bases so they’re ready to play with right out of the package

•    Always in Stock – Reaper Bones Black models won’t go out of stock and can always be reordered. You’ve got the demand. We’ve got the supply.

 

To launch Reaper Bones Black, we’ll be giving away nearly 150,000 free Reaper Bones Black miniatures throughout 2019. This will give painters, gamers, and retailers an opportunity to try Reaper Bones Black themselves. More details will be coming soon on www.reapermini.com

Reaper specifically notes that they listen to their customers and invite feedback on their products, including Bones Black, right there in the press release. The entire point of the promotional figures is to give customers a chance to try the products for themselves and obviously give feedback on what they think of them. What it does not say is "Praise only, haters!" Not everyone is going to be 100% satisfied with every product, especially when you're making really lofty claims like these figures are "equal to resin." A large percentage of the resin figures that I have personally worked with have required zero prep and the rest, very minimal prep. So when you compare a product line to resin, whether it was intended as a minimal comparison or not, for many people that is a very large promise. 

 

You have the same thing with promising that the figures "are cleaner, crisper, and require less cleaning." Now it does say less and not zero, but the pictures that I have seen of the troll on Facebook don't look to prove that to be true. I will say, because I do not have a Bones Black troll in hand, that it is possible that the grey material, while enhancing the ability to see details on the figures more clearly, may also be enhancing the look of the mold lines and that may just be an unfortunate side effect. I have heard plenty of praise regarding how much easier it is to clean these mold lines as compared to traditional Bones figures.

 

But all of that combined, along with the phrase "Just a quick rinse with soap and water and you're ready to paint" and the lack of any sort of mention that you may need to gap fill and smooth craters is, in my opinion, a misstep that opens these figures up for harsher criticism. I think it's complicated even further that the releases for the individual figures themselves have said that the figures come "unassembled and unpainted" and the unassembled part is just demonstrably untrue when these figures are, in fact, mostly preassembled in the factory and in some cases, a less than stellar job appears to have been done with this.

 

Personally, I think that Bones Black is a positive change compared to the malformed shar-pei faces, drooping issues and shredding material that has unfortunately been so common in traditional Bones; I look forward to the Bones Black figures that will be coming via my kickstarter pledge. I appreciate the sentiment that customers should temper their expectations, but when the company has made claims that have not implied that they should do so, then I don't think it's unfair for people to challenge them on those claims and give them the feedback that they have always invited and used to keep improving their products.

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