Grumpy Gnome

It would seem Core Space and Battle Systems are not that popular with the Reaper crowd.

Encouraging voluntary cooperation is what I am thinking. Guiding players into initial purchases…. be they minis, terrain, book, props, tools, whatever …. that are sound investments for long term use, ie things commonly used, replayability, modular, etc. Encouraging new folks to get some simple, generic terrain early on helps foster a sense of responsibility for that “third army” so often overlooked in the rush to get fancy minis. It is a lot like encouraging new larpers to buy a decent quality, simple earth tone wool cloak and basic sword instead of that fancy two handed sword with flaming skull hilt and bright red cotton cape.

We have gotten our hands on more Dwarven Forge terrain and our opinion of it has only gotten better. We love this stuff. If you are curious to read more details about why… https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/2021/06/18/dwarven-forged-part-3-june-restock-loot-haul-and-review/ One question that keeps coming up from DF staff is what else can they make thatbpeiole would want. Is there something DF does not make that you want? And, given their next Kickstarter will focus on city buildings… Is there something about their buildings that you do not like? Something you wished they did different?

Common courtesy is an interesting turn of phrase because there are expectations attached but rarely codified in any tangible way. I guess one way to phrase what I am skiing in this thread is that do you feel it is common courtesy to help create what someone in another forum called often neglected “the third army” of terrain even when you are not the GM/DM or Club/Shop?

Not all games require physical assets. That is true. But let’s not go off on that tangent for now. Let us accept that for the purpose of this discussion that there are some physical assets required to play your intended game. If you were to participate in a game would you provide materials beyond yourself and the absolute minimum you need to participate? On the surface it is unreasonable to force anyone to do anything in what is supposed to be social entertainment. However there are social contracts, often left unspoken, that we all abide to and encourage, ie do not cheat, do not abuse or take advantage of other players. Let me put it like this, as someone brought up in another forum when I asked these questions. Do you provide refreshments for other players, regardless of the location? Is it reasonable for players who spend a certain amount of time and money on their personal gaming materials to spend a percentage of that on gaming materials used jointly or by others? There was a time I thought only to provide myself and my gaming materials. I no longer feel my responsibility ends there and I wonder how others feel about this.

I do not think the style of game, boardgame, wargame or RPG is the key point of what I am asking about. It is mindset of the players, what they consider their responsibility to contribute. This is not the only forum I have asked these questions on today. I have seen a lot of interesting answers that have given me a new perspective on things I just assumed, like whether folks even bring refreshments for other players. There have been mostly host players replying. Where guest players have replied there have been some justification of their “guesting”, cost and space being two issues. One interesting reply was a suggestion for host players to provide a crafting session to help guest players make terrain they can bring to games in the future. “Give a player a fish…” But it is not just terrain that I am talking about. It is about fostering a healthy appreciation for shared responsibilities in gaming… even if that means bringing the pretzels I suppose.

While there are some “guest players“ that GM/DM, I would think they are rare, as you have suggested Dilvish. Let me be clear, I am not suggesting there is a right or wrong way to play or to put demands on people. Everyone contributes something in gaming by its very nature and demands in gaming often have a counter-productive effect. Be it demands to provide terrain or to play with only painted minis. There is usually room for flexibility in all gaming situations since this is supposed to be largely for group fun shared by all. Nice example with your gaming partner sharing the financial burden Mediocre Painter.

Whilst I have been asking these questions in a number of forums results may be skewed by the type of interested folks who are on such forums compared to more casual players. I can see from early responses in various places my terms are causing some confusion. The fact that a player would provide minis and terrain at all makes them a “host player.” The question is not where they game or are they a DM/GM. Where ever they play, in whichever role, they help in hosting the game by helping with the physical tools of world building. And yes this often falls onto the more experienced players with more resources available… but should there be a way to encourage new players to help out with terrain at the same time they buy their first minis? It is great that you have such positive experiences Dilvish. Unfortunately not every has had that. But I also do not want to criticize those players who are only “guests” at this stage because I think there are a lot of reasons why someone might not think of buying and providing terrain when they usually run games but rather just participate in a game run by someone else, be it a DM/GM, a Club or store or even just their opponent.

I have this idea that there are most players, let’s call them “guest players,” the folks who may have their favorite character mini, or their favorite warband, maybe even their favorite army. They also may have their favorite dice and appropriate personal rule books but no terrain, no NPCs. I believe these players are the majority of gamers. For most of the years I have been gaming I was a guest player. It never crossed my mind to get some props, terrain or minis that I would not be “controlling”. I always relied on a “host player” for these things. So then, what are “host players?” They have playing/storage space, game props, terrain, their own favorite character/warband/army and a bunch of NPCs that they or others may be “controlling.” These host players could also be described as world builder players. I believe that they are likely a minority of gamers. The last couple of years I have become a host player. Now I would like to test my theory… are guest players the majority and host players the minority? To what end you may ask? For me, adding terrain to the table helps share the sense of world building. It makes me feel more like it is “our table” compared to “my table”. I would love to see the majority of players get some terrain, easy to transport scatter if you will, some buildings or modular pieces of buildings. Pieces that they can continue to use long after they have repeatedly switched favorite character/warband/army. Pieces that they bring to the different games they play and pool together to help host players make even more amazing tables. It is true that some folks do this already as part of gaming clubs but again I believe that is a minority and that most folks who bring things to share at clubs or events are still actually host players…. Just on the move, so to speak. It is folks doing this that gave me the idea that maybe it would be good for the hobby if more did it. Another thing that sparked this thought was watching Too Fat Lardies using their random terrain set up system for Infamy, Infamy! on YouTube. Do you think it would be a good idea for more players to have a couple of favorite terrain pieces and/or NPC’s to bring to games? What do you think could be done to encourage more players to do this?

Mods please delete this thread

Thank you!

Yeah, the lack of instructions was frustrating. Thankfully I was able to find help online from others who had already figured them out.

A Christmas special from a couple of years ago, I just finally finished it. More about the views of my wife and I on Tabletop World can be found here… https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/2021/06/11/well-thats-tabletop-world-a-review/

I think Mrs. GG and I will be backing this one.

I have found it interesting to hear different views on miniatures in gaming on various forums. Different people have different experiences that frame their point of view and not everyone is a modeler. There is a wealth of information on the internet about miniatures and it has been a steep learning curve for me after a long absence from modeling and analog tabletop gaming. So I have written a somewhat lengthy blog post about some of the things I have learned. Some of it may be a bit basic for you but not others. Feedback, suggestions, advice and questions about the blog are very welcome. https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/2021/06/08/lets-talk-about-miniatures-a-tutorial-of-sorts/ However, rather than just my own opinions I would like to hear more about the opinions and experiences of all of you!

Thanks for the kind words!

After winning a Wizkids Half-Orc Paladin as part of a larger eBay auction I decided to convert it into something else. The scale of the head seemed too small so I replaced that. And the sword did not look quite right so I replaced that. Then whilst painting I got the idea to give it that Brotherhood of Steel rusty red look and suddenly I saw a Medieval Fantasy version of Paladin Danse from Fallout 4. However, I am not sure others will see the same resemblance I do.

The line has continued to develop at a quick pace. So much to love! Human cavalry should be out now and undead Revenants next month. I have to admit I am a big fan of the Oathmark and “X-grave” series of multi-part plastic sets from Northstar. Together they make a brilliant library of parts for kitbashed conversions. Great quality, lots of character and a decent price.

My go to for spiders now is Wargames Atlantic but I have some from a few other manufacturers. In my opinion the Wargames Atlantic box set is best value for money but is a bit fiddly in making the larger ones. I did a blog entry about this topic awhile back… https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/2020/11/16/spiders-why-did-it-have-to-be-spiders/

Thank you! The pipe is a bit from the GW Dwarves. I got a bunch of bits from various bits auctions on eBay, you just never know when a little thing like that may come in handy. It can be a hassle maintaining a big bits box, or series of bits boxes, and a library of multi-part plastic sprues but the vast assortment available means that for folks like me, although we can not sculpt from scratch, we can make pretty cool new creations.

Thank you!

Thank you!

It is a plastic version of, I believe, the Mercenary Freebooter. I picked it up cheap on eBay. I did not know what it was when I got it. https://warmachineuniversity.com/mw/index.php/Freebooter

Funnily enough it was our decision to back Bones V, with the amazing ship, that convinced us to back this KS, for more ships and crew! We were wondering if we would add anything else in the pledge manager and this thread now has us thinking of buying a second box of the named pirates if we can use them for conversion parts. It has not crossed my mind that they might be a multi-part kit.

My wife and I decided not to back the campaign. We later regretted that decision and picked a pledge up on eBay. The minis were so good it was an easy decision to back Fantasy Series 2: Lasting Tales…. And get the Gothic Horror add on as well!