Report Finally, Vamps vs Crusaders in Warlord General Discussion Posted September 21, 2009 Some more food for thought: The expensive options for soldiers in any army are not necessarily going to carry the day for you. Prior to 2.0, any player would agree that the Shieldmaidens were one of the best soldier choices. They were practically a shoe-in for any Dwarf list. The prevailing logic was "why ever take Warriors when you can take Shieldmaidens? They were just that good. 2.0 rolls around and I posited in the Dwarf faction thread that the Shieldmaidens were no longer the gold standard for quality Dwarf, and that in fact the Warrior, for 3/5ths the cost, was the new standard of what it meant to be a quality Dwarf model. The maiden has similar defensive capabilities, slightly better offensive capabilities, and has an extra damage track. Shieldmaidens are still better than Warriors, but for the cost I'll take a Warrior unless I feel I'm really going to need some extra staying power. This all translates fairly well over to Crusaders. Dwarves and Crusaders are both largely defensively oriented armies (along with Reptus and some Overlords). The comparison between Dwarf Warriors and Shieldmaidens is very much true of Justicars and Templar Warriors. Justicars have some extra fanciness, but they're essnetially longer-lived Templars. Perhaps trying out a larger troop of Templars is in order. You might find that it's actually easier to keep a larger pack of Templar Warriors alive than it is a smaller group of Justicars - the enemy can only focus on so many models at once. Another thought: Without seeing your army composition I'm not sure if this is something you're doing already, but I would suggest bringing along some Templar Ironspines and/or Lord Ironraven. Reach is very important for a defensive force. One of the big problems with a defensive army is that you can only take so much of a beating. Eventually you're going to need to sucker punch the other army to reduce its ability to continue trying your defenses. Reach is one way to do that - they charge in, you may lose some soldiers, hopefully they lose a few - then you shore up your line, bring in your Reach models behind that line, and use the Reach models to gang up on several enemy models. Focus fire, say with two front line soldiers and a single Ironspine in the back all attacking one enemy, instead of each soldier in the front line attacking a seperate target. This way you make it more likely to kill (or at least force a tough roll) an enemy, and you take less defensive strikes. I kindof blended two tricks into one there... Last thought: Reven are a completely different animal than Crusaders. They are brutally offensive but are very nearly entirely lacking defensively. You WILL inflict heinous casualties on the enemy army with a Reven fighting company, but you'll also lose your own models in droves while doing it. I'm not trying to persuade you towards one army or the other, just want to make sure you know what you're getting if you switch out to Reven. Overall I think that the advice given above is solid - having a good mage to soften the enemy up, and diversifying your soldier choices to keep your numbers up are good things to keep in mind.