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Posts posted by jdripley

  1. I like your list! There is some serious butt kicking potential there. Who does the enemy focus on? Gerard or the Beast? And your elites are both versatile and capable fighters as well - casting, fighting... And maybe it's just me but I absolutely love having Reach models in any fighting company I build. So much potential in those pike/reach models, and they're usually fairly cheap on top of it all. Those models and Gerard's Warlord Ability will basically assure you support wherever you go. Then toss in a Bless from any of the three models that are capable of handing it out in that list... yikes! It will be a seriously accurate fighting company.


    By my count your list is 746 points... Luck Stone missing from the copy/paste?


    I'm not sure you can stack Divine Vigor like you say. I can't put my finger on why I think that, specifically, but I'd check up on it before trying it in a game. That said, passing out free Divine Vigors up to three times a turn is seriously awesome, even if some of them end up landing on Justicars.

  2. The 1st edition rulebook does have "alternate" fluff which is a fun read. The fluff from the second rulebook follows the format and gives the same basic information, but it's from a somewhat different perspective. The maps are cool and the art is cool too, and there's a painting section in the 1st edition rulebook. So I wouldn't "toss it." I'd just disregard the rule portions ::):

  3. Stubbdog is right, a 3 way (or more) game without clearly defined teams must be a scenario game. Some players are naturally more aggressive, and some players are naturally more cautious, so even without a person who is intentionally trying to hang back and let the others weaken before swooping in for the kill, you can get a similar situation.


    I like control area scenarios - where a player gets points for occupying real estate on the board. This forces all the players to advance rapidly for the points grab, which in turn puts their models in close quarters with the opponent - and battle happens.



    What I really like for odd-numbered team games is to divide the point total between two of the players. So say you're playing a 1,000 point game, one player takes 1,000 and opposes two other players who each have 500 points, or two fighting companies whose total is no higher than 1,000 points (sometimes a player really really needs 2 or 3 points, and the other guy is 5 points short, so it works out). That way you don't have the whole issue of a player playing too conservatively and winning by consequence.


    As far as direct "pitfalls" to answer your question straight up:

    ---One player holds back for one reason or another and ends up with a strong advantage late in the game. The other two players get grumpy.

    ---Players react to different threats in different ways, and sometimes end up opposing the other players with unbalanced levels of force - i.e. player A has a big nasty model, so player B responds by sending more than half of his force after player A. Player C, then, can easily brush aside the token force sent after his fighting company. This often makes Player A feel grumpy

    ---One player decides that he doesn't want to fight a 2 front battle and uses his early turns to maneuver such that he is on the edge of a "sandwich." The player caught in the middle now has to fight off double his point value, coming from both sides, and gets ripped apart very quickly, leaving the other two players to contest the win. The "sandwiched" player most often feels grumpy.


    So mostly, as you can see, there's plenty of opening for players to feel like another player behaved unfairly, or had a spoken or unspoken agreemnt - intentional or not - with another player which had he effect of giving him or her no real chance to win.


    And as has been stated, scenarios often tend to mitigate those situations, as players are competing for a limited points resource. Thus if a player loses it is due to their inability to compete with the other two players for the points, not because they felt conspired against.




    Sample scenario: Evil Fairy Well (for 3 players)


    In the center of the table place a well, perhaps 2" diameter. Put out other terrain as desired, but keep it sparse and keep it even. Players all deploy in 12x12 inch squares whose close edge is 24" from the center well. Any model can earn a point by performing a specialty action while in b2b with the well. Play to 5 rounds and tally up the points to determine who wins!

    In addition, if you want to provide extra impetus to get into the action, you can have the Fairies cast Fireball at CP 6 at the nearest member of a fighting company that did not perform any Fight actions or defensive combat during a game turn (unless NO fighting company performed a fight action during that turn - i.e. turn 1 if all players move/run towards the middle).

  4. Lunk has access to the Arcane tome and the spell Arcane Shield helps a little bit against overwhelming archery. Could be something to consider - for the most part archers have fairly low RAV values, and of course the Reven aren't exactly tops in DV, but even +1 defense can go a long ways. That and Lunk has to be the craziest looking caster in the whole product line!

  5. Here's a 'What If' scenario...


    What if 2 players were tied for first in a tourney. One player has a painted army while the other player didn't. Would the player with the painted army win over the other or would both get awarded for first place?


    If you answered one player winning over the other then I think there should be a mandate.


    If you answered both should win then there shouldn't be a mandate.


    That's the way I see it anyway... just my 2 cents.

    You know, not too long ago I saw a thread on the warmachine forums where this exact situation came up. The guy with the better painted army was awarded the win because all other factors were equal (I do not think that "strength of schedule" was considered, and it ought to have been - but I'm talking about overall wins, victory points...). And you know what? The guy with the better painted army, who was awarded the win based on that impromptu tie breaker, BORROWED his army! Somebody else owned and painted it! Yikes!


    I see a few things wrong with that situation -

    1 - failure to factor in strength of schedule

    2 - failure to own up to a borrowed army

    3 - failure on the organizer's part to announce ahead of time that painting could be a tie breaker


    I guess I would be perfectly fine if painting were a factor. I'd want to know ahead of time. I'd prefer if it wasn't because I'd like to play games with the people who are too busy or who are not inclined to paint. It'd be a small, small world for us if only the people who liked painting got to play.

  6. I've got to say that having my own and my opponents armies painted, and playing on terrain that looks the part, really increases the enjoyment of the game.


    I've also got to say that monochromatic armies can be slightly confusing to fight against. By that I mean that if the whole thing is glistening pewter - or primer black or grey, or white, with no color besides, it's hard to visually tell things apart quickly. Now, obviously it's not really that hard. You can lean forward for a better look and you can tell right then. But compared to an army that has even 2 basic colors, or 3 basic colors, it's a world apart.


    But I wouldn't want to see it become a rule. Some have no interest in painting, others are lucky to find the time for a game, never mind painting. And I'd rather see those people spend what time and inclination they have on the game itself - playing against other people - then cooped up alone painting.


    I like the idea of a completely separate award category for fully painted/well painted armies. It ought to have nothing to do with determining who wins a tournament. Pete Storm used to run events and he always had a prize for best painted army on top of the 1st-3rd place prizes for the tournament.

  7. You absolutely can! Most people agree that for tournament play a miniature ought to reflect the general idea of a datacard. In other words, yeah, go ahead and use Echidnox, but try to find a datacard that fights using MAV (and, I guess Echidnox has a bow so you could swing a melee/ranged datacard as well.) Platypod ought to be some sort of a spellcaster. And Kyra & Lavirax ought to be something on a large or giant base (depending on how big that mini is), with flight and serious melee power.


    The idea is that yes, you can proxy with anything, but the whole point of using miniatures in a tabletop skirmish game is to give a visual representation of your fighting company's capabilities. Intentionally using an archer datacard and a fighter miniature is confusing to your opponent and is widely considered to be poor sportsmanship, as you are making it confusing to your opponent - who sees a melee-only model but gets attacked by an archer datacard.


    Fortunately there's about a billion datacards, and you could probably fit all three of those models into any given faction! Specifically, yes, you can use the datacard for Argyrian and proxy Kyra & Lavirath. The hard and fast rule is that the base size must match the datacard. After that, for all purposes Kyra & Lavirath "become" Argyrian in the game and the datacard is used as-is.


    Also, welcome to the game!

  8. I want to give an example of an SA synergy that makes it very much worth it to bring multiple types of models in a single troop. Take these two models - the Dwarf Warrior and the Dwarf Berzerker


    =204&chkID[]=199&ViewWhat=View+Datacards+%26+Images"]Warrior and Berzerker Stats


    The Warrior is obviously more defensively oriented - better defenses all around, and fewer attacks. The Berzerker of course can do more damage due to its melee stats, but it's easy pickings when its time for Defensive Strikes. Also note the Provoke SA on the Warrior. Provoke means if that model hits an enemy model, the enemy model cannot use defensive strikes on anything other than a Provoke model that activation. So by teaming up Warriors and Berserkers, you can help to make sure that those Berzerkers survive Turn 2 and can fight on Turn 3, maybe turn 4 as well.


    Now factor in Logan Battlefury's Warlord Ability. His ability lets a model trade DV for #MA, instead of MAV for #MA. Very risky - but if you have Provoke models around, you can feel more confident that your now low DV Berzerkers won't get slaughtered on defensive strikes.

  9. I call this list the "Red Carpet" because of all the notables gathered into one spot. I thought it would be fun to cram as many elites into a single list as I could!


    Overlords - 1000 points

    Troop 1

    Ashkrypt, Lichlord of Craclaw

    Arik Gix, Inquisitor

    Balthon, Priest of Khardullis

    Strach, Warmage

    Overlord Spearman x 4

    Troop 2

    Vincente, Chevalier

    Onyx Chevalier x 2

    Troop 3

    Taletia, Disciple of Ashkrypt

    Ymrilix the False

    Overlord Spearman x 4


    The idea is to spread the Spearmen out front in a pattern that will force the enemy to use up extra actions bypassing them, or using up actions smashing through them. Ashkrypt, Arik, Balthon, Strack and Taletia all blast the enemy to gribbly bits, and Vincente and his Chevaliers flank wide to try to take a little heat off of the main body.


    I would probably use the Onyx Legion doctrine with this... it boosts Vincente's troop quite a bit, and makes the whole army more resistant to magic.


    What do you think, is 5 casters a bit overkill? :wacko:

  10. I agree that the bit about getting a rush attack plus taking a fight action and getting all of those attacks and denying the enemy more than a single attack back is pretty much cheese ball, I was half way goofing off with that.


    But I stand by Shock not happening in the OP's case, as Shock requires a Fight action, not an attack. I read "All regular melee rules and SAs still apply. This attack is resolved along with any other Fight Actions performed by other models during this Activation, as per usual combat rules." as meaning that you still need b2b, etc etc, SA's like Smite, Mighty, etc, which have no requirements other than "attack" still operate.


    The 5 models with both Shock and Mighty are the Broodmaster, Lord Vandrian, and the Crusader heavy cavalry - Danel, Damon, and the Lion's Lancers. I bet that Crusader players in particular will be interesting to see how this is ruled.

  11. Rush Attack

    "To use this SA, a model must use both a Move Action and a Charge Action (in that order). If at the end of the Charge Action the model is in B2B with an enemy model, this model makes a single melee attack against any one enemy model it is in B2B with. The defending model may not make more than one Defensive Strike against each Rush Attack model that attacked it with the Rush Attack. All regular melee rules and SAs still apply. This attack is resolved along with any other Fight Actions performed by other models during this Activation, as per usual combat rules."



    "When a model with this SA Charges an enemy model and then conducts a Fight Action in the same Activation, the defending model must first pass a Discipline Check to get its Defensive Strike(s). A failed Discipline Check means there can be no Defensive Strike(s) (even if attacked by another model in the same Activation). If multiple models with the Shock SA charge and conduct melee attacks against the same model, the defending model must pass a Discipline Check for each model with the Shock SA that charged and attacked. Failing a single check means the defending model cannot conduct Defensive Strikes. Shock works additionally with other SAs (like Fearsome), potentially causing defending models to have to make multiple separate Discipline Checks, one for each effect."


    I'd say no, you cannot use both Shock and Rush Attack in the same activation. I've bolded the required actions for both SA's above, and you'd need three actions in order to pull off both SA's.


    Now... what if, say, the spell Burst of Speed was cast on a model with Rush Attack and Shock (of which there are 5). The model gets a Movement action as a free action... then it can Charge (satisfying Rush Attacks requirements) and then Fight (satisfying Shock's requirements). Does that model then get to Rush, Shock, and then get it's one free Rush attack on top of its regular Fight attacks - and still limit the opponent to a single defensive strike aimed back at it?

  12. This is a good question. I think there are a few competing "requirements" that guide me as I design an army. I put requirements in quotes because it has nothing to do with rules and everything to do with play experience and what I have found to work and not work.


    As Castlebuilder noted, a diverse army is difficult to completely counter. By including several types of soldiers, it becomes impossible to deal with all of them with a single gimmick. Thus you protect your chances of winning by forcing the enemy to effectively counter your layered approach.


    Numbers count. Numbers as in model count, but also troop count. Typically a low-model count army is also a low troop count army. They are not necessarily inferior to an army with higher numbers, but you must understand that by designing an army with only one or two troops, you are willingly giving initiative to your opponent. They can and will outflank you, outmaneuver you, and so forth.


    Quality counts. It is a very real possibility that in a given game you will face something with high defenses and/or damage reduction. A swarm of weaker models will be fodder to such an enemy, so even if high numbers is your strategy you still must have something, or several somethings, that can deal with a "tough nut."


    Layered attacks are important. At least one troop in your army ought to be capable of attacking in two ways, if not all 3. There is melee, range, and magic. A melee-only troop may find it very difficult to rip apart an enemy without taking equal losses - but if you can blast the enemy troop as a whole with an area effect magic attack, then pick off the wounded with two or three archers, then your four or five melee models can charge in and finish the fight and only take minimal losses.


    Synergy matters. The lamest thing in the world is to play a game that is a straight dice-fest. Recently I bought into a game that looked really awesome, had extra sweet looking miniatures, and appealed to my geek-ly senses. After a half dozen plays, though, I realized that the game had no real way to effectively "play tactically." The models were there on the table and your choice was "attack this one or attack that one." As the dice fell, so your battle went. It was fun while it lasted, but six plays hardly warranted the investment. In Warlord, the special abilities, both for an army as a whole and for models in specific, as well as the spells available, are what bring this game beyond a straight dice fest. These special abilities and spells allow you to leverage the strength of your army in different ways at different times. You have actual choices that will affect the game. For example, the special ability Frenzy. You can reduce the strength of your attacks in favor of a higher quantity of attacks. Models with this SA are often pretty good at taking down a tough opponent, but because of the SA they can also go after many weaker opponents. Furthermore, you can use a spellcaster to improve the attack qualities. An army with only one or two types of models in it has very few ways to adapt to the current battle. An army with multiple layers of synergy can handle both the elite guard unit formed into a square and the raucous goblin horde that swarms the table.

  13. My group uses a 30 point buy system, but in a few weeks we're doing a side campaign for a month or so and we rolled stats for our characters. 2d6+6, assign wherever you want. We used the rules in 3.5 DnD where if your highest score is a 13 OR if the sum of your ability modifiers is no more than 0 you get to re-roll all stats. One player got something ridiculous like a 60 point buy result, I got a pair of 16's and a pile of 12's, and one guy got junk for stats, re-rolled, and now has a workable group of numbers. In all I think the random rolling we did worked in our favor over point buy.


    I like point buy because if you want a certain type of character you can make stats to fit it.


    I like random generation because you can create a character around a set of stats.


    It's kindof a question of intent to me - create the sort of character I really want, or let the dice fall where they fall and follow them into a character concept. I think it would be fun to roll all stats in order for the entire party just to see what type of group you get that way.

  14. @ Shakandara


    6 models 25mm bases onto a single 20mm base model, as follows:


    --"front" side of the 20mm base gets two 25mm models, each with 10mm touching and 15mm hanging off each side. - 2 models

    --"back" side of the 20mm base gets the same treatment. - 2 models

    --"left and right" sides each get a 25mm base turned diagonally and eased in, such that the corner touches but the rest of the mini's base can fit between the 20mmx15mm slot formed between the target 20mm model and the overhanging 15mm from "front" and "back" attackers. 1 and 1 model for two more, six total.



  15. I think it could become a pain to always be trying to remember that "per the rules" your bases are 5mm larger on each side, but I see no reason why if you're playing friendly games you'd need to re-base your models. The big thing to remember is how many models you can get touching a single base, and never exceed that. It'd really only become an issue with standard sized models piling onto a giant sized base, I think.


    So long as you and your opponent are fine with it, go ahead. Bringing the army to a big convention? Then I can see some re-basing in your future :)



    By the way, welcome to the game!

  16. Hello!


    I'm gathering information on Adon to use as a setting for the type of miniature campaigns that I run once in a while when the "main" DM takes a break.


    Books I have for resources:

    Warlord 1 2nd printing rulebook

    Warlord 2nd ed rulebook

    Dark Heaven Apocalypse rulebook

    12th Journal of Johann Kruger (which comes in the DHA boxed set)


    The current step in the project is a comprehensive list of deities. Ironically the DHA book which is focused on Adon as a whole really only mentions Khardullis in association with Malvernis, but Warlord 1's section on roleplaying mentions a broader variety of deities even though it's much more "local" than DHA. So here's the list I have currently:


    Ishnar and Gustan - gods of sailors and ships

    Khardullis - tyranny and slavery

    Ravilax - war and slaughter

    Marna - agriculture

    Sokar - pretty much everything if you listen to the Khamsin - or Sun, death, magic


    "The Templar 3"

    Shadarzaddi - healing/comfort

    Anarion - law

    Aurellius - "paladin stuff" - heroism, good, all of that jazz



    Typical elven:

    Alathanel - loyalty and faith

    Ghoersull - hardship

    Brandaraynn - murder and shadows (dark elf deity)



    Typical Dwarven:

    Angrum Silverhelm - fatherhood

    Megnatha Irontresses - Motherhood



    Am I missing anything? Seems like aside from Khardullis and Sokar most people in Adon recognize that the deities are out there, realize that they have an impact, but end up having more of an animistic view - do what needs to be done to gain or ward off the deities power, but for the most part have no real loyalty or love for a deity. It would be the sort of setting where the "I don't do the whole deity thing, I am just a cleric of this collection of domains" type of thing happens more often than not. Definitely a long shot from Forgotten Realms, aka "yes, there actually IS a cleric of toenail clippings." Which is not a bad thing at all, if you ask me.

  17. per the fluff:


    The Khamsin people worship the god Sokar, who often reanimates his dead worshippers to serve him in Adon a second time. The Khamsin of ages past were very devout, and their faith permeated their whole culture. As a result of their belief that any person could potentially return to the land of the living, they decided that it was a bad idea to let anybody see your face as you killed them - they may then return and seek vengeance. So it became a custom to wear a mask whenever a person killed, whether it was during battle, or assassination, or whatever form of killing there may be. Over time the Khamsin people drifted from their faith, but the custom remained. At the time of Warlord, the Khamsin are mostly returned to the faith, so as they go to war against Sokar's enemies, they wear the customary masks into battle to protect their identity. The foot soldiers all have the signature mask, many of the mounted models wear cloth wrappings over much of their face.


    Interesting note: The Dervishes have abandoned the practice of wearing the mask, as their role is more of an infiltrator/spy and wearing a mask would give them away.

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