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Posts posted by odinsgrandson

  1. 57 minutes ago, Sanwah said:

    On Ninja Division and Prodos.


    I think the big difference between them is that Prodos/Archon used the Load funds to deliver Load, and then any extra money to continue to deliver AVP.  From the outside, ND seems to use the funds from their successful KS, like Starfinder, to prop up their failed KSes, and thereby adding one more KS to the list of failures.



    There's a lot of speculation to that end, but the other Kickstarter projects didn't show any progress either...




    19 minutes ago, amuller33 said:

    Kickstarter ...the GAME! lets do it. actually lets call it Bootstrapper the game cuz Im sure KS would sue us!!

    I think "Crowdfunder" would be the generic term.

    • Like 4
  2. 10 minutes ago, Orlando_the_Technicoloured said:

    Sadly if you run a KS and for what ever reason are going to have problems fulfilling it the best thing to do is stay quite, don't update, don't rock the boat




    I think you've got a good point here.  People claim that they hate the lack of updates, but I think they hate frequent updates a lot more.  Ninja Division was doing weekly updates (most of which didn't say anything important) and it seemed to me like the backers revolted against the Kickstarter WAY earlier than usual.

    When they did post an update that cooled things down, it only bought them a week- because the very next week, the empty update brought back all of the discontent.

    Adam Poots almost never updated- so when he published one of his grand mega-updates, all the backers would be content long enough that they could forget about the project (rather than being angry at it).


    I think that announcing your financial issues causes problems as well, since backers seem to be offended that you have any money that isn't getting spend on their KS project (I think this is a lot of the issue with AVP- they've released a number of small game expansions before finishing with the KS stuff).


    • Like 5
  3. 38 minutes ago, kristof65 said:

    I'll stew on this and reply more when I have more time, but I just had to comment on this: I don't think Palladium had that great of a reputation before the Robotech debacle. 

    If reputations went on a scale of -5 through +5, with 0 being neutral, I'd say that Palladium went into the Robotech KS with something like a -1, while CMON more likely had a 0 or 1 when they did their first KS.  


    Man, I so want someone to make a co-op board game about trying to run a board game company and deliver Kickstarters.

    It could work kind of like Dead of Winter or Battlestar Galactica.  You assign resources to various projects, things go wrong,  backers launch attacks, etc.

    It could be pretty awesome.

    • Like 4
    • Haha 12
  4. I've recently been looking at a lot of the Kickstarter failure and success stories, and I wanted to share my thoughts.

    The best thing for any Kickstarter is for things not to go wrong.  Reaper seems to do an extremely good job at this (they do the math ahead of time and stick to the plan- I think they always run their company in the black).  They also communicate well, and that's nice. 

    But what is the right thing to do when  things do go wrong?  What is the right thing to do when the company has run out of money?

    - Robotech RPG Tactics ran out of money to deliver everything, so they created a first wave 

    - I suspect that some of the early CMON Kickstarters went over budget, and were saved by the company's other sales (Zombicide and Super Dungeon were huge retail hits at that time).  If that's the case, then they were using a "wave 2 after the money lines up" model.  They also continued to run more Kickstarters (each with a different game developer, so as not to split the resources too much).

    Their communication model was mostly to not say anything, and sometimes give some projected dates (which would sometimes pass without comment). 

    I think it is important to note that I cannot confirm for certain that any of these projects were overbudget (CMON won't talk about it).  With their recent company losses, it is clear that the company does sometimes run in the red (even with all of their Kickstarters).

    - Kingdom Death suffered from ridiculous scale creep- even after the Kickstarter was over.  The difference was funded by continued resin releases (which all sell out within minutes, if not seconds).  Wave 2 was probably funded in part by the release in wave 1- the core game was totally out of stock by the time the expansions came out.

    His communication strategy was to be silent for LONG stretches, and then wow backers with a mega update.  He hid the financial troubles he had (he did confirm later that the resins were funding the game).  This seemed to work exceptionally well for him- even as the project ran stupidly late, and was obviously in the red, the backers stayed with him and were excited when the game showed up (I suppose it also helps that the game was really fantastic).


    - Prodos is one of the craziest ones.  They ran out of money and ran late, so they decided to split waves- and also produce non-Kickstarter items for AVP.  They said that they didn't have the money for split shipping, so they required backers to purchase any other item from their store in order to receive their pledges.  Some backers did, and got their stuff, but other backers did not, and have received nothing

    They continue to support AVP- they're slowly making all of the Kickstarter items along with other new releases for AVP.  One of the more infuriating things they did was release the game's 2nd edition (they did post the new rulebook online for free).  In theory, when all of the Kickstarter items are produced, Prodos will be shipping pledges out to the backers that opted not to buy anything more from them.


    Since Prodos' reputation was demolished, they decided to hide their identity by creating Archon Studios and staring up the LOAD Kickstarter.  While LOAD was the red-flaggiest Kickstarter ever, it did fund well, and then delivered.  Now, Archon (Prodos) seem to have no trouble running successful Kickstarter campaigns (while there are detractors, it doesn't seem to hurt the funding numbers at all).

    - Super Dungeon Legends had the same sort of issue.  Ninja Division's first attempt to reconcile their problems was to run other Kickstarters to get other products to market- and ran into the issue that none of their other lines are close to as popular as Super Dungeon (and therefore couldn't support the load that ND was asking of them).

    It seems to me that Ninja Division intended to split the waves so that retail can handle the difference, but missed the boat several times (ie- I think they planned on splitting into waves, but were running short on money by the time they were ready to go through with it).  They're currently hoping to find someone to buy them out or loan them money, but the prospects don't look so good.

    -There are a few other Kickstarters that I'd like to use as examples, but I'm not totally sure what went wrong.  Hero Quest 25, Journey, Rivals: Masters of the Deep and Middara are all Kickstarters that definitely had problems, but I didn't follow any of them close enough.  And I guess Hero Quest wasn't a Kickstarter by the time it actually funded.



    So here's one of the things that I'm thinking about.  Life continues to be unfair.

    If CMON did the right thing (getting stuff to retail in order to fund games for backers) then didn't Palladium do the same thing with Robotech?  It went extremely well for CMON- it formed the basis of that company, while Palladium is one of the least trusted names in gaming- and it came down to one failed game release.  Does the morality of it all depend on the outcome?

    Ninja Division were also trying to do what CMON did (running many Kickstarters, so the successes can pay for the losses).  It clearly backfired, and now they have tons of disgruntled backers- some of them got a partial delivery from Way of the Fighter or Starfinder, but Relic Knights 2 and Super Dungeon Legends backers have gotten nothing at all (and they seem even to lack the funds to fix some screw ups with Rail Raiders delivery)

    But the worst of all of this is the success story of Archon/Prodos. 

    I'm not totally sure what I think about Prodos' release model.  Honestly, if I could pay an extra $30 and get my Super Dungeon Legends pledge, I'd be all over that, but the most vocal backers really hate them for it (and they're continuing to produce more stuff from the AVP Kickstarter).

    But I definitely disapprove of hiding their identity with LOAD.  And yet that move has clearly paid off for them- big time.  And I'm sure some of those sales of LOAD and such are funding the slow releases of the AVP stuff.


    So-  it is clear to me that Kickstarter rewards conservative/responsible business practices first, but when things go wrong, it seems like lying your broccoli off can actually get your company into a place where the public trusts you.  There's something REALLY wrong with that.

    • Like 8
    • Thanks 3

    Yeah, Blood Rage minis are fantastic.  I think Blood Rage was the first board game where the Studio McVey quality really came through.  It is nice that the game rocks as well (although it plays very different from most miniatures board games).



    On 12/7/2018 at 6:12 PM, cmorse said:

    As far as the physical items, there has been lots of pleading in the board game world for access to the original exclusives, particularly the 5th player expansion. Usually CMON answers that by throwing out a season 2 and buries people in so much game content that the old exclusives aren't really that important except to collector types. Blood Rage season 2 isn't really something that has a place, so this is a good way give people who missed the first kickstarter a chance at access to the exclusives.

    I don't really get what people have all been on about, really.  I mean, I think it has been super clear from the start what the CMON policy is (they're happily offering alternate sculpts for past exclusives, but they absolutely are not going to offer those old exclusive sculpts again).


    Yeah- I think those old sculpts are on par to better than the new ones- although I do think that those three new monsters look really terrific.  Still, part of that is due to CMON not showing off the core box stuff as well as the stretch goals (larger pics and more angles on every stretch goal mini).  I think there's a good chance that the Wolfwoman looks better than the Wolfman, but it isn't easy to tell from the angle we have.


    I think this campaign is a really good idea for Blood Rage fans that missed the original Kickstarter.  I think it is really interesting that all of the stretch goals are for physical components.  I think that makes the digital game more likely to succeed and fulfill.

  6. On 12/15/2018 at 5:51 PM, Balgin Stondraeg said:

    Red flags like Sans Detour selling the Greens of the Confrontation miniatures they weren't including in the campaign on their own sister company's website for about $700 each while the kickstarter campaign was still running in a short sighted desperate bid for cash when surely holding on to the greens, casting them and selling copies, would probably be a better long term investment.



    Whoa- I didn't know about that one.  Crazy, I'd  have thought that would have come up in the comments section a lot more.

    The comments section mostly emphasized the ludicrous pricing scheme they had going on, and the way that the separate companies owned by the same people looked really bad.

    • Like 2
  7. Yes, Sans Detour's business plan was all about doing French translations of RPGs.  This was often, if not always, done with crowdfunding.


    In the Confrontation Kickstarter, Sans Detour used their previous experience with crowdfunding to legitimize themselves as capable of delivering on a large Kickstarter.


    This has also caused some frustration for Chaosium (who can see the Kickstarter numbers and easily calculate the royalties they're owed from those projects).

    • Sad 2
  8. Someone in the comments wrote:


    Le Facebook de Sans Détour vient d'être fermée.


    Sur infogreffe : un établissement Sans Détour, basé à la même adresse que feu Ludikbazar, vient d'être radié le 12 décembre. Bizarrement il porte le nom "Sans Détour" (aucun lien hein...)

    Il en reste un actif à Villeurbanne rue du 8 mai, l'adresse actuelle de Sans Détour.

    According to Google Translate, this means:



    The Sans Détour Facebook has just been closed.

    On Infogreffe: a Sans Détour establishment, based at the same address as the late Ludikbazar, has just been canceled on 12 December. Oddly, it is called "Without Detour" (no link eh ...)

    It remains an asset in Villeurbanne street May 8, the current address of Sans Détour.



    So the SD facebook page is down (not a good sign).  I can't quite figure out what the rest of this means.  It sounds like he's saying something else about the business and its location, but I feel that Google English just isn't as good as the real thing.

    On 12/13/2018 at 2:32 PM, kristof65 said:

    And even as the totals were dropping, they kept promising more.  it struck me as insane. I became a $1 backer at that point, strictly for the entertainment value.   Yeah, they got a buck out of me.  But I knew I was going to lose it all along - I just want to see how their updates are.  I just know at some point their updates are going to become "for backers only" 



    You and me both.

    I feel like I know what went on with the Robotech Kickstarter, but I've had a really tough time piecing together what happened with Alien vs. Predator.  I wanted front row seats for Confrontation's demise.

    • Like 2
  9. 18 hours ago, SisterMaryNapalm said:


    No, that doesn't exist in Germany. (and on top of that, I haven't had time to play anything recently)



    I can't help you find the time, but I heard that there were plans to translate Stuffed Fables into German (according to the game designer).  I didn't follow it, but I do kind of expect it to be released by now.

    Stuffed Fables is a Plaid Hat game- they're one of Asmodee's minion companies, so a German edition isn't far fetched.




    edit: found a  news announcement

  10. 1 hour ago, SisterMaryNapalm said:

    You could use those for a wonderful boardgame. Just need a story around it and have some kids play their first game of Pen&Paper. I would so absolutely love to see that.



    Have you played Stuffed Fables?  It is pretty awesome (a bit less Pen and Paper and more Story Driven Dungeon Crawler).

    • Like 1
  11. On 11/7/2018 at 5:46 PM, ced1106 said:

    Well, hopefully, anyone expecting a dungeoncrawler like Gloomhaven had better know better.


    I'm seeing dice, so it's not like GH in that GH uses a card system, while pretty much all other dc's use dice for combat and other skill checks.



    To be fair, Gloomhaven has two kinds of cards, and one of them is a dice simulator (you draw a card when you would 'roll to hit').  

    Gloomhaven's hand management for actions is probably its most innovative aspect, but the deck of dice results isn't so very different from just having dice.

    Gloomhaven's rulebook could do with a LOT of trimming (like cut a bunch of the AI if/then rules that don't work well).  I'm not sure that it would still work if it fit onto 3 pages, but it could probably get down to 20 pretty easily.

    What I'm mostly noticing is that many aspects of this game are presented as if contrasting to Gloomhaven.

    • Like 2
  12. On 11/2/2018 at 5:43 PM, Darsc Zacal said:

    This game reminds me of what I’ve heard about Gloomhaven which only has minis for the player characters while everything else is a standee.


    If I were to buy this kind of game, I think I would just buy Gloomhaven due to availability at retail and the positive reviews I’ve heard.



    This game is very much posing itself as a Gloomhaven killer.  Quite a few of the things they're advertising here are clearly meant as direct comparison to Gloomhaven (like the talk of Replayability- as opposed to GH's Legacy aspects).

    • Like 1
  13. I got to paint up one of their test prints.  Unfortunately, I took these snap shots myself (I'll get some better ones up after my wife takes pictures).




    For those of you who are wondering, Impact! Minis 3D prints are WAY better than other ones I've seen within an order of magnitude of the price range, and are quite nice to paint.

    • Like 6
  14. On 11/2/2018 at 11:28 AM, Warlady said:

    Love the turrets.  The whole batch is very creative!



    Thanks.  To some extent, I'm trying not to spend much on the monsters (since a complete Gloomhaven set will have a LOT of different monsters).  

    Right now, I'm focusing on some of the more iconic races.  I've got a whole bunch of Vermlings to do right now, and pretty soon I'll start converting the Savvas and Inox.

    • Like 1
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