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Posts posted by odinsgrandson

  1. 12 hours ago, Club said:

    PP seem to be planning to run multiple kickstarters for the entire range, one after another. This will piss of the retailers and FLGS.


    I don't see this ending well for them, long term. I might get an army and rulebook from sheer nostalgia, but I haven't managed to play warmahordes for a couple years.


    Well, would retailers and the FLGS actually be into this game anyway?  I mean, they did that with Riot Quest, so they'll have those numbers for comparison.

    There are definitely scenarios in which this is a better distribution plan than normal retail. It has worked very well for a lot of board games- I wonder if this will make it work for a tabletop miniatures game.

    So I am interested to see how the experiment goes for them.


    I was really surprised to learn that they haven't delivered on their previous campaign (Wild Assent).  Did they partially deliver or something?

    Because Kickstarter doesn't usually allow multiple projects unless the creator has previously delivered on at least one of them. 

    The only reason I could see for the exception would be because they were involved with other companies that delivered.




    9 minutes ago, Balgin Stondraeg said:

    Those are some ambitiously priced pledge levels. I'm not saying they'll struggle to get backers (things like Kingdom Death exist afterall) but by pricing themselves out of the market a bit they could be losing a lot of potential backers - especially if they have an undelivered project casting a shadow over their reputation as well.

    Starting a bit more than a year ago, a LOT of Kickstarter projects started emulating Kingdom Death and Gloomhaven's co-operative massive campaigns- so they're definitely going after the Kingdom Death crowd.


    I looked at the company profile, and it mentioned that they worked with other companies on their Kickstarters.  The problem is that one of the two they listed was Ninja Divisions Starfinder minis.  I doubt they were involved with any of the things that went wrong there, but I know that there are people who will hold it against them (maybe even more than having an unfulfilled Kickstarter to their name).;

    • Like 1
  3. There's a thread in the comments section gathering all of the red flags in one place.  Somone brought up some things I don't think I had head before.

    [q] Sans Detour had to put on hold their Aventure rpg Ulule project due to contractual issues with the author who claimed he had not been paid for his work. Being labelled as a "preorder" this crowdfunding campaign must be refunded to backers under the french law. They've been reported to the Franch Fraud prevention authority and they decided there was matter to investigate for an eventual prosecution.[/q]

    I have no problem at all believing that Sans Detour would fail to pay an author they're working with. I didn't know that they were actually handing out refunds for one of their previous catastrophes though- but I'm not very certain that the guy who wrote this confirmed it.

    • Like 5
  4. 20 hours ago, Inarah said:

    Cool detailing. I like the 'real metal' look you got on the cannons. Care to share some tips? 



    The base coat is in grey (not silver).  I shaded this with some pretty dark colors (I think I leaned blue) and highlighted using metallics.  I find it works best if you do the highlighting after using a matt spray (it makes the metals turn out very shiny).

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1
  5. I'm definitely very curious about this one, but not interested in the same way.

    I've painted quite a few heroforge minis over the years, and while their printing has improved, I still find that I prefer a finer sculpted mini pretty much every time.

    But then again, I'm pretty good at customizing minis myself, so I haven't had a need to pick up any of theirs.

    • Like 1
  6. 2 hours ago, kristof65 said:

    Unfortunately, as you pointed out above, even when red flags are pointed out, people ignore them. 

    I can sort of understand when a small company like Defiance Games makes $46k over some $30 boxes of minis where the average pledge size was $68, despite the red flags.  

    But the Sans Detour Confrontation KS?  Where the average pledge size was $189, and the project was hemorrhaging funds almost every day after the first week? 





    The "Average Pledge Size" isn't a good average here because there were a bit more than a thousand pledges at $1 (either people who were undecided or people who wanted to comment/watch the campaign).

    The people who actually got in on the Kickstarter pledged about $300 each- and the total is something like 400k.

    And I agree- that makes this a much more impressive scam- despite the bright visibility of the red flags.

    • Like 2
  7. 19 minutes ago, kristof65 said:

    mostly the same here. 

    I hope that at least KS gained a lot more skeptics willing to do some due diligence and watch for red flags after this.  But probably not - instead, KS probably just gained a bunch more detractors who will simply blame KS and avoid any sort of crowdfunding instead. 




    I have felt that Kickstarter skepticism has grown a lot in the past couple of years.  There are now often people pointing out the red flags.

    I have generally thought it lined up with the pronounced failure of Super Dungeon Legends.  Ironically, that Kickstarter was red flag free. but I think it has convinced a lot of people to at least look for warning signs.


    • Like 2
  8. On 1/18/2020 at 8:01 AM, Orlando_the_Technicoloured said:

    i think most with reservations dropped out before the end, to not give them even a euro


    so a lot fewer who can say I told you so in the comments now



    There were 1,200 Celebration boxes sold, but 2300 backers all together.  I mean, I didn't seen another Kickstarter get this kind of action at the $1 level until CMON's Time Machine.

    I'm sure that some of those people were just foolishly hoping to pick up a few resin minis, but I know that I've seem some of the people who were prominent detractors continue to post after the KS ended.

    And this Kickstarter has made me reflect about how I weigh risks for something like this.  I think that sometimes people weigh the risks very poorly. I mean, we look at all the information, but we feel that since both sides have supporters, they both are equally legitimate. Then we choose to believe what we WANT to be true.


    For a lot of people, the choice to believe in Sans Detour was based on a real desire for Confrontation to return rather than a vigorously honest assessment of the risks involved.


    This, unfortunately, is the reality that the internet has created. All beliefs are signal boosted to the point where even complete lunatics can find communities to reinforce their beliefs.


    Perhaps we can take solace in the fact that there were more backers of this campaign than there are members of the Flat Earth Society.

    • Like 5
  9. 9 minutes ago, Balgin Stondraeg said:


    Oh I've been gloating but I've been doing it very privately.



    Fair enough.  I guess I'm surprised that no one has been rubbing it in the noses of the backers in the comments section.  Comments sections tend to get nastier when things go wrong.

  10. On 1/7/2020 at 12:53 PM, Orlando_the_Technicoloured said:

    yes people are now seeing what shipping actually costs (which keeps rising fast too)


     I do like chibis but i'm not interested as the proportions on these are just not to my taste (thankfully)

    Yeah- I shipped something in the latest box I got from CMON.  The stuff I was shipping was lighter, and I was shipping domestic, but it still cost $60.

    I get the impression that CMON are the only ones charging actual shipping costs right now.

    • Like 1
  11. Yes, that is how I read it as well, but there are still ways in which Piotr Borowski might be responsible for this mess.  The two parties involved in this contract can't agree on what the terms mean- and significantly neither party wrote the contract.

    From everything we've seen of Piotr, he isn't one to shirk at an opportunity to take advantage of someone, and we also know that he doesn't always uphold his contracts and pay royalties.  What kind of contract might someone like that be ok with signing?

    If the contract is illegal, unfair or unclear, then that is the fault of Play & Win under the leadership of Piotr Borowski.

    • Like 2
  12. 8 minutes ago, Gadgetman! said:

    Strange, that. Wasn't it Sans Detour who sold off the old masters some time ago?


    Yeah.  I wonder who bought them.  I mean, it might have been a collector, or someone who wanted to use the production masters for, you know, casting.

    (CMON still has a set of masters from back when they were trying to make Confrontation Phoenix happen).

    • Like 1
  13. 11 hours ago, Balgin Stondraeg said:

    It means without.


    Ironically while they continue to "struggle" Legends of Signum seem to be quietly going from strength to strength.



    Yeah. Signum has a shady foundation for their company and game, but the problem was all about owning the rights.  They have experience with production logistics, so they brought in enough money to pay for their delivery.

    Seriously, I'm still not totally sure whether it is possible for them to be as ignorant of production logistics as they seem to claim.


    *Although the fact that Sans Detour doesn't own the Confrontation means that "Stellar" -a "completely different company" will continue preventing Signum from doing their recasts.


    I'm pretty sure that avenue of Confrontation recasting is never coming back.

    • Like 3
  14. 44 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

    I will point out that actual game rules are not copyrightable, at least in the US:




    It's not quite as simple as just making a copy, though, since the literary and artistic elements of the rules book/file can be protectable. But it wouldn't be difficult to create a new book that specifically explained how to play their game, based on the KS exclusive English version.



    Would this be a simple game?  It struck me as the type of game that would be complex to translate (because it has a lot of narration and cards, etc).

    I've played games that translate very easily.  One didn't even bother to have different versions of the game- they just put five different language rulebooks in the box (they were short rulebooks).

  15. 53 minutes ago, Maledrakh said:


    I don't think there will be any other language versions printed. pdfs might happen though. Also, foreign language editions are (potentially) licencable, so it actually makes sense to not limit oneself unnessecarily.


    I thought they announced several language versions of the game.  Are they just "game in English plus a PDF?"  Did I miss that?

    As for licensing the game in non-English languages... they could also license it to a publisher for a new English edition.  Probably neither will happen, but if they're just leaving the door open, why not leave the door open on the biggest market?

  16. 1 hour ago, mvincent said:


    Exactly (mythological speaking). But when it's talked about on say, a gaming miniatures forum, the Gygaxian creation is the default assumption.



    He'd likely be melancholy without needing a reason. But yeah: I like mythos stuff for the gaming and miniatures: I'm a Peterson fan rather than a Lovecraft one.


    (..fwiw: I'm pretty sure Cthulhu can vary her size as desired though)



    I'm not certain that Cthulhu can vary in size as desired (not like Nyarlathotep).  But sightings of Cthulhu tend to be accompanied by incomprehensible geometry and a certain malleability of space itself.

    The trap door that opens in Call of Cthulhu to let the Great Old One out is described as one of these- the sailors couldn't decide if it was sitting flat against the ground or at a 45 degree angle.

    One viewer might see Cthulhu and reason him to be 120 feet tall, and another reason him to be 750 feet tall, and a third reason him to be a mere 20 feet tall and none of them necessarily be wrong.




    As for Howard Lovecraft's opinion of us... he hated games.  I doubt he'd approve of us in any way.
    Not that I mind, Lovecraft hated a lot of things that I don't (like non-white humans).

    • Like 2
  17. 16 hours ago, mvincent said:


    Heh: that's kinda like saying Gygax was wrong about the size of the Tarrasque. Sandy Peterson is the source material material for CoC (which inspired most of the Cthulhu craze). He might've been inspired by certain sources, but I don't really read this Lovecraft guy you speak of ;) (who was sorta imprecise anyway when describing Cthulhu as "miles high").





    - Gygax is wrong about the size of the Terrasque.  And its appearance and species (it was a dragon from French folklore, and there's a town named after it with a big statue of the Terrasque in the square).  Also, it was taken down by a single bard.

    But if we're talking about Peterson in the creation role, I still find him to be an unreliable source.  Kind of like how George Lucas was wrong about MidiChlorians granting force powers.


    - Lovecraft did describe Cthulhu as Miles High- the viewpoint character in this case was Wilcox who had encountered Cthulhu in a dream.  The Reddit thread uses Johan's journal entry instead, which should be considered a more reliable source (if anyone witnessing Cthulhu can be considered reliable for any facts)


    16 hours ago, ced1106 said:

    That's pretty cool.

    To take that a step further, if we say that six feet is represented by thirty milimeters, then a miniature of Cthulhu should be 24-30 inches tall.

    That's closer to CMON's 22 inch estimate than Peterson's 72 inch estimate.

    • Like 2
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