FreeFall
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Posts posted by FreeFall
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Actually it kind of does. The OEM Rhino is the original design manufactured by KDM and sold across the galaxy. The Faction Rhino is the upgraded version utilizing the latest in advanced parts which is only offered by to the Ritterlich forces.
You're assuming that OEM is the best way to go, but that's doesn't have to be true in this case.
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<start shameless plug>
Hey guys, this is all great stuff and I would love to have yall posting htese kind of observations over at the Mil-Net Boards. This will really help us as we start developing the first round of products to know what you would like to see.
</end shamelss plug>
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Hey screwheads...If you haven't seen it yet go over to Mil-Nets home page and take a look at the Friday update called Shards. It will give you an idea of what we're up against.
Hey, you all brought this on yourselves.
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"This book is really great, I'm glad I bought it." --about the new O'lords book
That's what I like to hear! I needed an ego boost today.
As for making Bryan look good, do we get bonus points for that?
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So I get my Overlords book finally and look over the Onyx Legion sublist (LOVE it Thane ) ...
Thanks dude, glad you like it!
Please tell me I'm not the only one who's ever done this?I recently lost my Ymrilix, the first Overlord I ever painted. I was crushed, devestated and seriously PO'd that someone had lifted it during the last convention!
So 3 weeks later I am pulling minis out and there it is, right where it belongs, in it's spot in the case. My buddy and I went through ever case I have looking for that dang thing, and neither of us saw it. Doesn't make any sense, and no one had access to the case but us. I guess Ymrilix just needed a vacation or something and snuck out.
I have since installed iron bars on his slot in my case to prevent him sneaking off again.
We need a Zephyr Sergeant and a crossbow sergeant.
I agree about the Crossbow Sgt., but I think Lorenth is fine as a Zephyr Sgt. Of course, I never use Crossbowmen in an all XBow unit. Overlord Crossbows are best used with other units taking advantage of Ranked, IMNSHO.
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Another fun trick with Strach...
Run near base to base with a bunch of slaves.
Cast stun.
Watch Slaves eat stunned heavily armored soldiers for lunch.
You can do this with a mage too, but with Strach it's not a suicide mission.
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Boy is the "Hunter's Moon" one sweet faction ability for the Onyx Legion . While I won't say it determined todays games , it certainly had a big influence .
A smart player can gain a huge advantage using this ability right. A smart, patient player...
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666 goblins? I wonder how many Bondslaves I can pack into a 10,000 point army.
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My first review. I'm not sure if I want to read it or not.
Thanks for the heads up.
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I got into O'Lords back when Warriors were still grunts and they became Adepts a few months later and I put them on hold...now that the book is out and I have my copy, I realize that 16 O'Lord warriors isn't enough...
That's what I keep saying about Bondslaves and Phalanx Units.
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Just picked up my Overlords book today. Very, very cool.
Default Overlords faction abilities have changed they are now as follows:
Do Your Duty
Fear the Whip
Lock Shields
Marquise's Personal Retinue
Anthony
True, there are additions, but the existing abilities did not change.
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I would concur with all of the above and add a few more points.
Chevaliers are cool, but I personally find them underpowered as solos. The only place I have been able to effectively use them is in an Onyx Legion list.
Matisse is usable at any level of game. Well within reason I guess, a 500 point game might be a little low for a Warlord model. Still he is a beast when pimped out with armor and weapons and I use him all the time in 1000 point games. Just don't be afraid to move him up and let him do the damage.
Arik is a must. Originally he was not a part of the Onyx legion list, but i like the addition. He is now in all 3 lists I believe, so very versatile.
Ymrilix is another must, I think. The dude is a pure killing machine and I use him in nearly every army list I play. Sad thing is, someone ripped mine off at the last con. Can you say distraught.
Followers of Khardullis...this is a tough list. The main reason is the shear number of models you need to paint. Gobs and gobs of bondslaves and survivors. Personally I like to mix troops with Lorena, 4 daughters and 10 Survivors.
Incarnation of Flame. I have used this ever since I got the model and it rocks. On the surface it seems lackluster statwise, but in practice it is very effective. Not to mention an awesome model.
Selthak the Poisoner...Sniper with poison. What more can you ask for?
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Apologies FF. I probably do sound a bit too much on the negative side. But, I have just as many if not more things to say on the positive side. Overlords has been my second army for a while now and the release of the book has done nothing to take away from that.
No, no, I didn't think you were being too negative. Just pointing out a couple things I saw differently.
1. The dominate spell is not very clear in the book wording. As long as I adhere to the spell restrictions (specifically the DIS7 restriction) can I dominate a spellcaster and have that model cast one of its own remaining spells?Yes, as far as I know. It allows you to make a combat action, which would include firing off a spell.
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One more question: are the crossbowmen stil adepts or not? Your post here seems to indicate that they are grunts in the Onyx Legion, but they weren't included in your later post. Thanks!
No, crossbowmen are still adepts. I think Storm is confusing the final with an earlier version. In the version I submitted they were non-adepts, but it was just too powerful. Wrap 4 crossbowmen in a troop of Phalanx and it's bad. Do that 3 times in a 1500 point army, and it is insane! Hunter's Edge is little different too, but I don't have the final text in front of me. It's based off the size of your opponent's force, kinda like the Nefsokar ability, but I don't recall the final point values.
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OK, first off Stub, I think you are focusing too much on what is NOT in the sublists. They are, after all, sublists that are designed to give some flavor to the faction as a whole. This is especially true when you consider that the Warlords of the Overlords are all struggling with each other for power. Why then would General Matisse use a uniwue elite who is bound to Ashkrypt? (aka Rogran).
Second, You are forgetting that any models can still be used in the main list. Don't want to be restricted, don't use the Onyx Legion list. Use Ashkrypt, Iks and a big pile o' phalanx units.
Now, lack of elites. This I do agree with you on but something has to give in the way of balance. Plus, is the bevy of elites a Faction plus, or a plus of the default list? There has to be some reason to still play the default list, right? Here is how they break down:
Onyx Legion:
Pros: Heavy Armor, Range Attack Shutdown, Ability to use Chevies as elites or solos(major plus), ability to control the game flow with Hunter's Edge.
Negative: No clerics. This is on purpose actually, both for fluff reasons and game play balance.
Follwers of Khardullis:
Pros: Mob, VoK as innate spell, Cleric heavy.
Negative: Limited elite slots. Without this VoK innate is uberpowerful. Still Lorena is non-unique and she is a cleric with Mob. You won't get a troop of 20 like Iks, but a troop of 15 is still pretty nasty.
Default List:
Pros: Massive elite slots, lots of options, most flexible army list in the game thus far.
Negative: Army Abilities a bit bland. Not bad, but bland.
As for the Chevies, all through testing we've used them as both solos and elites at the same time. I don't have my copy in front of me, but that is how I intended the rule to be. However, rules and gameplay are Michael's baby, so we'll have to wait and see from him for a final clarification.
I was also surprised to see Taletia not in the Onyx list. She is a sgt and a mage. It would have made a little more variety in the leaders between the two sublists.Taletia is a disciple of Ashkrypt. Her, Rogran and Iks are all specifically vassals tied to the Lichlord. Hopefully they'll let me expand on that in future books. I have a plan for old Ashypoo.
I'm really excited to hear people's feedback on the book. It has been really tough to keep my mouth shut for so long, which is the main reason I've been scarce around here lately.
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I'd use Scorched Metal for my shadow color. I would think that you could take your highlights right into the first golds triad, though I haven't tried it.
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Ok I'm looking for a little help with my initial o'lords force. So far I've bought minis I thought looked cool and paid little attention to how they'd work in a force. So far I have:
Matisse
Ashcrypt
Andras
Arik
Kevis
Balthon
8 warriors
3 xbows
3 spears
Selthak
Speaking with people on the chat I've realized that many of these are not terribly good models to field in low point battles, so I'd like some help on where to take my force next.
My own plan is to first expand with
1st wave of reinforcements: Corvus and some additional xbows.
2nd wave: Chevy
3rd wave: more spears and some slaves
Is this sound? Any suggestions?
I personally wouldn't pick up Corvus, I'd pick up another Andras. Poudn for pound, one of the best Captains in the game. The other thing I'd pick up would be Iks and a bunch of slaves. Don't underestimate the ability to have 19 bondslaves acting as one. If nothing else they draw firestorms away from the warriors.
Don't overlook Ymrilix, he can be devestating in low point games. As for the Chevie, well...I go back and forth. I don't think he's very effective in a low point game were you can only have 1. Put two or three together though and its a different story.
The only models you have that can't be fielded effectively in small games are Matisse and Selthak, and I've yet to field Kevis (with Ashkrypt and Arik in the force? No.). I'd swap waves 2 and 3. The Chevy is rarely effective without a troop of cavalry (and devastating with one...) no matter how cool he looks.PS
Oh I don't know, I've got a 1000 point Matisse list that rocks! Granted, he's half the points, but whenever you use a warlord at that level it's gonna be lopsided.
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In my case, I don't use the plastic bases at all for my Overlords. Instead, I use bases from my Hirsts Arts molds that look like stone. This gave me enough space to work with in positioning the shields and the crossbowmen to make it look like the hiding behind the shield or stepping out to take a shot.
I mounted mine to the base and I think they look fine. They're kind of in the corner of the base.
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Points are not the only way to measure Model effect on the battlefield.
Force Organization, the ability to pick and choose Models that harmonize and augment each other, is in no way related to point value. The only control on that is to, by definition, change Force Organization.
Before "points" there was only Force Organization, ask any historicals player, points cannot work by itself since it was developed to augment and compliment Force Organization.
Well that's exactly what I was going to say, but Matt beat me to it. This makes sense, since he's the one first pointed this out to me clearly when we started working on units for the faction books. Here's a great example: Overlord Crossbowmen.
Yeah they're archers so they should be adepts and yeah they have great stats, but points alone doesn't tell their story. Ranked is a powerful ability and makes or breaks them IMNSHO. Take a troop of 10 Crossbowmen and they fall pretty easily. Now take 5 O'lord warrios and 5 crossbowmen. Now take two troops of those. Those crossbowmen are going to live a significantly longer time and do more damage than the same 10 crossbowmen alone. That synergy between a high DV warrior and a range brutn that can attack THROUGH them is powerful. Points can't stop that, the only way to really balance it is by limitting the number of occurances of that synergy, because having two troops of that combo opens a wealth of tactical options.
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I know the feeling. People always complain about Warhammer changing from one edition to the next; will this be the case with Warlord?
There's a big difference there. Changes to the Warlord rules don't make your entire army worthless and they provide those changes for free. I have a buddy who plays 40K and twice now he's had to scrap 80% of his army and start over.
The changes that are "sticking" people with unusable figs are changes that were necessary to combat abuses to the system. An all archer Elven force was broken and needed to be changed. The Reven list was broken in many ways, and needed to be changed. I hate to use the word broken, because it's not like they were totally unbeatable, just unbalanced. The fact that someone bought 40 elven archers to exploit that embalance and now is stuck with extra archers, doesn't bother me, quite frankly. Sorry if that sounded a little snarky.
Will these changes keep happening, I hope so, because it makes the game better. I don't care how big your playtest group is, until you get it out in the real world, you won't find every little way in which someone can tweak and twist a system to number crunch their way to victory. I like that they are trying to make the game about skill and tactics, rather than who can build the best army combo. That's why those changes have been made, not for marketing reasons like some other companies do.
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Oh wait, I just thought of one: they do lack a two-weapon/two-attack adept; but I wouldn't call this a substantial weakness in light of everything else they've got going for them.
Daughters of the Whip are a 2 MA adept.
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What about a durability test? I'll agree that Testers Dullcote(lusterless laquer, now) is the best fixitive I've found, but it has no protective properties at all. So what'st he best compromise between protection and finish?
BTW, while I' like the Citadel for it's dead flat finish and decent protective properties, it has a reactive problem with Master Series paint. I've had a dozen figs that have got a frosty finish from using Citadel sealer.
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My guess is that is the 3 color rule employed at Reaper Con and Origins - Models need to have at least 3 colors. <shrug>
And don't forget, PRIMER counts as a color!!!
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YOu know something else to consider is that you can still have two troops of warriors, if you are playing a 1500 point game. This has never been a hinderance to me, primarily because I think 1500 is the best level of play. 1000 is too low, IMNSHO.
This is incorrect. You aren't allowed a 2nd troop of adepts until 2000 points. You get one for every FULL 1000 points, as specified on page 49 of the 2nd printing core rulebook (bottom left corner of the page).
You're absolutely right, Gus. I had 1500 points on the brain because I had just been discussing the 1501 pt level requiring a Warlord model. I'll stand by my point though, just replace 2000 for 1500 in the above argument.
Recruiting Hall
in CAV Faction and Tactics
Posted
It just depends. Personally I like the true scale models because they are way cooler looking.