FreeFall

Thanks Michael for the clarification and clear, definitive answer. One last question though. How would this affect a situation like the Reven default list and the removal of Warcry, since the list is neither a datacard, rule or special ability. Or is it considered a special ability because it is an ability removed from a list?

You are absolutely right, this needs a clarification, for official play. In a friendly game it should be decided between the players what is cool and what isn't. However my feeling son that stop at the grunt/adept debate. This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. This isn't about not forcing people to buy all the factionbooks, this is about exploiting a loophole that needs to be closed.

See that's a good point, about Warcry! I had missed that one, but since I never play Reven I'm not surprised. I'm wracking my brain and I can't think of any other circumstances like that, but I'll check when I get home and have the books in front of me. No not solely, but I know that in the case of the Overlord Warriors and Templar Knights(I htink this happened, didn't it?) it was. At least that's the reason given to me by on high when I was privately arguing against it.

That's not what I'm saying though either. there are two things that bother me though about this philosophy that I think need clarification: 1.) It's always been said that you do what you want, except at "official Repear Sanctioned Tournaments". Right now this is RCon, Gen Con and maybe Origins. Those rules state that they use the latest rules and errata and official proxy rules. So what does that mean specifically? Does that mean I can take an army that only uses Overlord Units from the Core rulebook and consider my Warriors as Grunts instead of Adepts? How does that make sense? It doesn't. It shoudl be stated at the start which rules are in play, not determined by what loopholes players want to try and exploit. The second is that any rules changes that affect existing rules should be errata, in my opinion. For example, datacard changes should be universal, not determined by if you choose to only by the rulebook. What if a core ability wording was changed? Factionbook ruling trumps rulebook ruling it's been stated, so does this change become universal? If we have say a faction ability that is changed, you're using a core only list and I'm using a factionbook list, do we then have two different rulings for the same ability? That's confusing and frustrating. It is 100% playable out of the core rulebook. Give me an example where it isn't? Show me some place other than grunt to adept changes where there is a conflict. The only place where you would have to buy every book is to have every option available to you as a freelance company. The average person can buy the books for the armies they want to play and that's it. If runnign a freelance company you can't use the faction abilities anyway, so all you need are the datacards for otehr non-core models. Luckily, those are available for free, so where's the problem? Hmm.... I'm not sure where this came from, but that's not the reason I was given when first told to change Overlord Warriors to Adepts. I was told that all the infantry grunts with DV 11 would be changed to Adepts because they were too powerful as grunts, and because some factions had DV11 Adepts already, so this brought everyone in line. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The idea that having a faction book gives you an advantage is a phalacy to me. All these new models and rules are tested so they are balanced against the core rules and playable against a list using only core rules. This was always an explicit directive to the playtesters. I've played a lot of games on both sides of this issue and I just don't see it. I can win with either force. I hope I'm not sounding too argumentative, but there's just something about this which annoys me. I'm not really sure why. Maybe I'm jsut still annoyed at having to turn Overlord Warriors into Adepts.

See I was always under the impression that these changes from Grunts to Adepts were eratas that affected all players regardless of what they use rules wise. Similar to the changes of all ranged grunts to adepts. The other thing I don't get is why are people obsessing with the "if I don't use the factionbook I can just use the core rules, right?" question. First off, what's the benefit of doing that, other than this adept/grunt thing? That sounds like more of an abusable loop hole than anything else to me. After all, those changes were made for a reason, so suddenly all those other factions like the Nefsokar whose DV 11 Grunts are already adepts, are at a serious disadvantage. Second, I don't even know why we need an "official ruling" on this. I mean basically any tournaments that are officially sanctioned are going to use the faction books anyway, right? Well in casual play you can do whatever you and your other players agree on, so why get so hung up on the rules lawyering? Or am I missing something here?

Before switching to the Reaper Master Series brushes, I used the Series 7 minis and I love em. I didn't switch until I had worn the Series 7's out. The big difference I've found is that you either prefer the shorter bristle length or you prefer the longer. I had a hard time dealing with the longer hairs at first, but now that I'm used to it I think I prefer they. Because I mostly layer like Anne does(since she taught me to do it in the first place), I like the longer brushes because they hold more paint. This may seem like a minute difference when talking a 5/0 brush, but it let's me paint about twice as many strokes before reloading. This let's me be more consistent and get better transitions, I think. The only place I disagree with what Anne said is regarding the larger brushes. I have a 1 in both sizes and use it liberally for base coating. Part of it may be coming from a theatre scenic painting background, but there was always a rule that I've stuck by: Use the largest brush possible. The main reason is that it speeds painting time, so if timeis a concern, consider that. Of course I do a lot more army painting than anything else, so I'm basing a lot of figs all at once. I have started teaching this in classes though, because I think if you learn to control a larger brush, you develop very fine control with smaller brushes. I think I can safely say though that you wouldn't go wrong with the Series 7's miniatures.

YOu know something else to consider is that you can still have two troops of warriors, if you are playing a 1500 point game. This has never been a hinderance to me, primarily because I think 1500 is the best level of play. 1000 is too low, IMNSHO. Also, this adept rule hurts the Overlords less than other factions because we have such great elites and a higher elite capacity than other factions. Those elites take up points. While I may not be able to ahve two troops, each with 5 warriors in them, I can have a troop with 7 and a troop wiht a bunch of bondslaves. That's a small payoff for fielding Ymrilix, Arik and Balthon together.

Because he believes that his undeath is truly a gift bestowed up on him by his master, Ashkrypt. That gives him a feleling of invulnerability, thus Ronin. That a good enough answer?

OK now this is sick and twisted, I know, but what do you expect from me? This is from my sig line. To properly understand it you have to imagine Ranthe, the Khardullist Evangelist leading a children's choir int he streets of Craclaw, singing this to the tune of Jesus Loves Me. Khardullis loves me, this I know Cause the Inquisitors tell me so Everyone to him belongs We are weak but he is strong Yes Khardullis loves me, Yes Kahrdullis loves me, Yes Khardullis loves me, The Inquisitors tell me so. I think I just secured my place in Hell.

I consistently use the slay the dragon scenario. If you put a 12" reaper Dracolich (Khaladrax) out on the table, it draws attention. :)

You're undersestimating the power of the Mob. Believe me, 1 DV and 1 MAV makes a big difference over the normal bondslaves. On paper, doesn't look like much. In actual usage, it makes a difference. Give em a try. And I'm sure they aren't going to change. Once a datacard is printed, the stats are pretty well set. And yes, Warriors are adepts in the book, just like all grunts with DV 11.

Looks really nice. I personally did add more orange to the body for exactly the reasons Crunch stated. The problem is I had to then go back and tone it down. It's a fine balancing act. What killed me about this one is that I had to paint it backwards, using white as my shadow and orange as my hightlight. It was freakin wierd!!! I dig it LCS, I reall do. Makes me want to finish mine up now. Oh and by the way, is this not the coolest interpretation of a Fire Elemental ever?

I keep putting this off. I have the Altar of Evil and it's a great quick and easy solution, but I'm envisioning something more ambitious. I have two ideas. First is a slave train cart, bars, wheels, the whole deal. The second is some sort of torture device, surrounded by candles, a priest with a ritual knife, etc. That's the one i really want to do, but I haven't found a suitable minni for the poor soul strapped to the instrument of torture. Like i said, ambitious. The only thing I am lacking is Ambition.

The rules don't say they have to be in a big line, just that they have to be B2B with two others, so that sounds perfectly fine to me. Or course, it is begging for a fireball/firestorm to hit them. Ahhh the great equalizer. Yes this is legal as I understand your description. It does not have to be a big line.

Lookin good dude. Very nice dark armor tones.

Plus if they have taped on labels they've been around a while. I'm not sure what the shelf life is on those things, thoguh I'm still using original paints. The only one I've had problems with is the new Intense Brown. That's the only glossy finish I've had.

Blaspheme!!!

Is Strach the coolest mini we've seen in a while or is it just me? I just love that it's a dynamic pose.

Overlords, definitely go Overlords.

OMG, The Bondslave Survivors!!! Bobby, Bobby, Bobby...Awesome! I've been dying to see how they would be handled and they are perfect! Oh yeah, the Spider Demoness ain't bad either!

OH and a note about assembling your Phalanx models. They're a pain in the butt! Be warned that the arms just don't quite fit right. I wound up pinning half of them until I broke my drill bit off. The rest, well we'll see, but I don't think they are gonna hold up very well. on a bright note, they look cool assembled, especially the ones with raised shields!

Sorry do dwell on this topic, but I have to respond to this one last post. While I love this idea and think it would rock, it just not realistic for Reaper to do. Remember the CAV cards? Most of us BLs still use em for demos, though mine are totally trashed because they aren't coated. They sell for what, 7 or 8 bucks a pack? Everyone's always complained about how expensive they are, but there's a reason. I did some reseach a while back into getting a deck of playing cards printed as a fundraiser for the Mil-Net site. Unless I was willing to order a quantity of 10,000 they wouldn't even talk to me. Even then MY price would have been like $4+ per pack. That's cost! I daresay that the Mil-Net faithful would have kicked in $8 a pack and puchased maybe even a 100 of em. That still would have stuck me with a $39,000 loss. It just wasn't realistic. Now as cool as Warlord is and as hot a seller as it is, do you think we'd all buy enough decks to make that venture even break even? Granted, I'm sure Ed knows someone who would cut him a break(heck Ed ALWAYS knows someone), but still, it's not a very sound business move. As for people getting blisters wihtout cards, that because some distributors still have them out there, I'd imagine. I have yet to recieve a model from Reaper that doesn't have the new cards, if I have ordered direct.

OK, Ok, let me clarify. I don't mix bondslaves into every troop, I usually use a large mob of JUST slaves. I know a lot of Overlords players that like to mix warriors, slaves, spearmen into one troop. I like to specialize usually, going either all mob, all heavy, etc. Now that primarily been due to selection of models, I think, as I've recently started mixing spearmen and warriors a bit. However, the only "mixxing" I do on a regular basis is crossbowmen and Warriors for meat shields. This is a really good start for someone "trying out" the Overlords. You pretty much cover the whole spectrum. The only thing I would suggest is to definitely pick up Ymrilix, and maybe also Matisse. He's the new melee warlord, and he rocks! But what else would makes sense for the Overlords, except maybe a tougher slave? It's not like a race of goblins, where their racial characteristics gives them that mob ability, then they have different professions. A slave is a slave. Would a slave be trained enough to be an archer? How about to fight from horseback? Probably not. Not trying to be argumentative here, just following a path of thought. No, slaves don't recieve any training. They are given a sword and told to go forth and die, not with honor, just die. The slower they die the better, because it delays the enemy. That is their lot in life.

Depends on the army list I'm using. I know a lot of people use them to fill out rosters, but I for one don't. If I am using Iks for example, he's carrying 18 slaves. If I'm using Andras, he's packing Warriors. Now, Ashkrypt I might throw a few extra slaves in to take advantage of his Mob ability, but that's it. I'm a little wierd though in that I don't mix grunts within troops all that much, unless it's adding warriors in front of Crossbows. A lot of players though just look at their stats and say they suck, then choose the warriors over them. That's because they don't understand the power of the mob. BTW, anyone want to paint up 40 Bondslave Survivors for me once we ge the models?

Oh I don't know, I'm posting about recieving my Phalanx units, which use locked shields. That's on topic! Kinda.