ViciousPanzer

2d6 would smooth some of the swinginess in this game and would improve and/or change tactics. I also just don't like how the d10 mechanic works in practice. I can't plan around the the die type because it's too swingy, so I take a small subset of troops to mitigate and make the die irrelevant which has basically made 50% of the models I own useless. Now I do understand how the d10 does makes one-hit-one-wound mechanic work, but as I said it makes the game a little more swingy than I like. Lesser defensive strikes is about how I loathe out of sequence activations. It rewards lazy play and makes paying attention to the game optional. Currently full strikes back makes stand and wait as viable a tactic as hunt them down, and I am no fan of encouraging people to not engage in playing a game. This is slightly less of an issue with missions, but point me to a repository of missions. It doesn't exist. The ranged rules have a few problems. First the troops are overpriced for what they can do. At their cost I can get better melee troops who can more reliably damage my opponent. Second defensive shots make it so no one shoots at other missile troops unless they have no other targets so it's a wasted ability. Third missile troops are useful only in turn 1 and depending on the draw turn 2 thus not justifying the points cost. This is how I play against missile. Deny shooting on turn 1 and be in melee on turn 2 thus making your missile troops overpriced underpowered melee troops. Not really. If it was plus 1 for every group of number x in b2b then yes. As it stands taking a melee beat stick that costs what 3 basic troops cost is typically far superior than the 3 warriors. The MAV that beat-stick has is better than the +1 three models in b2b would get. Yes you'll get more attacks but usually those beat-sticks have abilities that are better (read damage causing abilities not requiring a roll.) 2d6 would improve the game. CAV:SO is already playing better because of it. It makes me not feel like I was yet again screwed by the swingy nature of the d10. One of the ways to resolve why defensive shots suck is that if anything shoots in LOS of a missile troop they can shoot back, but then that ability would be too good. A million times this. Releasing a PDF of another company's rules when the D&D 1st ed rules it uses are free online already (OSRIC) was silly. Giving people access to the 2nd ed Warlord rules would've been the better move. But hey as you said they're not a game company. With a few hours work I could make a pretty decent Dungeon Crawl game using the Warlord rules and the D&D Tiles. Ok, been a long time since I was on here but much hasn't changed about Warlord since then heheh. Warlord works off of a d10 system for a reason. It may seem swingy but in actuality it's statistically very stable. I know this because a statistical fanatic helped put the system together. I may be missing the point on the 2d6 train of thought but I can tell you that working in increments of 10% is very stable and easy to modulate. Any game with dice and chance will be somewhat swingy but in Warlord each faction has the ability to negate much of the swing if you build to that purpose. Whether through massive number of attacks, massive MAV's, buffs, a combination, etc. Also I should point out I have no idea how to cut up and multi quote stuff so this is going to be alittle ramshackle approach to the message I am delivering. On the subject of defensive strikes - During playtesting we tried a ton of different ways to do defensive strikes from allowing ALL strikes against any opponents in b2b to 0 allowed. We found that for speed of play allowing the full number of attacks to be used defensively was the best choice. The combat to me seems like a real fight where every moment people are trying to kill each other as opposed to "You tried to kill me and when I get to go next I will try and stab you back. .. if I am still alive". Initating a charge vs receiving - There is a HUGE advantage to being the aggressor in a melee situation in Warlord. One of the very most famous instances of this is when 7 Bondslave survivors rushed Rauthoros and brought him down in one melee. This was when we tested the much dreaded Darkspawn Daisy Chain tactic.The charge plus support bonuses gave them a fighting chance against the monster to which they succeeded brilliantly, unfortunately they didn't receive those because they were under the effects of a spell that made them mindless but it did give them Martyr so they still got +2 but had to die afterwards. If they had RECEIVED a charge from Rauthoros, even all 7 of them at once, it's unlikely any would have scored a hit because they would have had only a 10% chance to hit instead of a 50%. The long and short is that the game rewards for aggressive play. 3 units charging one unit usually results in the charged unit's death and a wound or two possibly on the aggressors. Some SA's make charging a unit unpalatable (FIrst Strike/Pike) but the advantage is still to the attacker as they get to dictate who takes a spear in the eye. Setting up a good charge and maximizing support and #MA is one of the things I like best about Warlord. If you don't believe me on this I would be glad to take you on anytime and show you the difference in receiving the charges or giving them :) Ranged units - Ranged units are pricey for a reason you are right. That was something else that was tested extensively. Since Warlord is a melee skirmish game I believe the intent was to err on underpowered archers versus over powered. That being said though, archery units are far from underpowered. Just like if you choose to make melee a focus for your list so to must you build your list to accomodate for archers particular strengths and weaknesses. There are builds for each faction that can quite effectively highlight the brutal power of ranged attacks. One of the favored is the Ivy Crown archers for the crusaders. With Lady Jehanne in command of 10 archers and an elite for bless you now have a unit that will consistently put out 10 RAV 6 shots or RAV 5 at long range. That's pretty fierce and will make short work of many soldiers. Couple them with Lady Devona and you now have access to Whirlwind to keep enemies in disarray and unable to approach. Throw in a couple of troops for a picket line (like wardogs with their Short SA) and you now have a very defensible firebase from which to black out the sky. All in all a ton of testing went into the various ways Warlord could be configured. I won't speak to CAV or Reich as those games both have dynamics I am unfamiliar with but I can tell you that the deeper you dig into Warlord, the more elegant it seems to become. I've only found one broken list in this new edition and believe me I excel at finding the broken in game systems. . .well most systems in general. And even though it's a broken list it's still not entirely broken, it has to be played the right way or it's defeatable as easily as any other list. Even after years of playing it with no revisions or anything I am STILL finding new and interesting builds and combinations for the factions. Just wish I had more time to test my theory crafting for practicality ha! I hope that addressed properly the points you rose. If it didn't please let me know and I am more than glad to expand upon my notions or even make them more succinct as I see I have typed a bit. . . Cheers! I haven't gotten to chat about Warlord in a long time so I'm a bit rusty as to everything and why, plus I wrote this past midnight and nothing good happens past midnight if you are over 30.

I would love to see a Karkarion faction. I think that would be boss. However! Datacard wise I would suspect they are fairly similar to Koborlas. Infact! If you really had an urge and the mind for it I bet you could create a proxied up Koborlas list that would play every bit like a swarm of blood crazed shark people and still be very viable. :)

You may also want to consider making the Gaan'Hor list of doom verboten. I've never seen it beaten when played properly and only took us 1 tournament to realize it was a bit much for "friendly" matches. It's the closest thing to a broken list that exists and can ruin a lot of fun. . unless of course someone out there thinks they have what it takes to stop it?

Another benefit of spikeshell's DR (and relative cheap cost) is that you have no fear from fireball, poison, chain lightning, or any other AoE for the most part when they are massed together. They shrug it off and keep trucking. Unless your opponent drops 2 effects on you. Then you are boned. . or shelled? It ain't good either way.

In time I may be able to make a sizeable contribution. . Although I may negotiate slightly different rewards as befits my evil genius mindset. Joshua

Definitely sounds like something worth ditching work early for. Joshua

Wouldn't really be relevant for some games. GW's Warhammer 40k uses 2,500 point forces in tournaments I believe. I may be wrong. Haven't played that since discovering Warlord lol. In any even tI do know people who have spent 2-3 thousand dollars on just 2 or 3 armies for that game and still are missing things they'd like to have. Joshua

Technically, it seems that if you are stunned and burning and you use your 1 action to do something other than put yourself out you would then take a point of damage and be un-stunned. . but still burning. So then would you get your second action? Or is the one action limitation a factor regardless of that fact? If so then it stands to reason that a stunned model will always only ever be able to take 1 action on their next activation even if they take damage before that. Follow? Joshua

Paint or no paint. The eternal debate right? Well the fact is that miniature painting and miniature gaming are two completely separate hobbies independant of each other. It's true. Someone can go their entire life painting miniatures without ever gaming with one and the opposite can be said as well. Requiring someone to have a painted army or they can't play in tournaments is like requiring someone who only paints to play the games or they can't enter into painting contests. Could you imagine telling Derek Schubert or Anne Foerster that they aren't allowed to enter their painted figures because they didn't play a game with them first? It just doesn't make sense since they are two separate and distinct hobbies. Painted models look better than bare metal most of the time and they also improve the atmosphere of the battle tremendously. What they don't do is offer a tactical advantage or make someone a better player. Since tournaments are there for players to pit their skills against each other, not their paint jobs, painted armies just aren't required. I'd be more interested in a "best sportmanship" award than a "best painted" award. Want to win an award for your painted force? Enter it into a painting competition. Want to win victory in a tournament? Play well. Joshua [EDIT] Looks like my point of view was expressed a tad earlier than I hit post lol [EDIT]

As we all know it's all about the list and not at all about the player lol (inside joke) Joshua

I'ts a badly designed scenario. It grants a huge advantage to whoever gets the first move on the first turn, and heavily favors whoever brings the biggest close-combat general. -Lionheart. It's funny you should say that as I defeated a Reptus list led by the Broodmaster (the most melee warlord there is just about) with a Nefsokar list headed by Neb'Nesew Nepet (not at all melee). . AND I had to go 3rd in the first turn ( I really should include more initiative conrol in my list). If you focus on the objectives and less on just killing it has a great effect. Joshua

Well it all really depends on what you and your opponent decide before the match starts or what a tournament scenario dictates. I would say (don't have my rulebook handy) that a crossing point of a river would count as light terrain or difficult terrain at worst. MEaning either no movement penalty or 1/2 move. Crossing a river is a 1/4 movement penalty as your units attempt to swim it I think (meaning 1" costs 4"). One could always just deem something water as impassible too either due to strong currents or angry watery denizens like pirhanas or something. Joshua

I don't think this would be a difficult card to create actually. Give it 4 Damage Tracks so it's automatically nice and pricey. Give it a modest DV and MD, sad melee abilities, and a few SA's (Construct, Undead, Deflect/1). Wouldn't want it to be an elite or a soldier as that would be too powerful to team it with a troops firepower. So it's a solo. As for the Ranged stuff. In order to keep it simple I'd Give it Range 20/36, Indirect Shot, Pierce, AoE/3 (3" AoE), Sharpshooter, Unhinderd, and RAV 4 or 5. Would probably cost less than 200 points. Yeah, that would be pretty nice heheh. Joshua

Boosh! It's on! Joshua

Stubb is right. DR/2 models like Mossbeard can be a right pain to deal with but if you focus firepower on them they fall fairly easily. The whole point is to put as much damage on them at once while minimizing damage taken in return. Model states like Stunned, Disabled, and Cursed are huge when attacking such large models. Send in a disable model after hitting him with an Ice shard or some other effect that stuns and you will face almost no retribution for your assault. This is why it's important to have versatility in a pitched battle list. That being said, 3 mossbeards is a nasty proposition! Joshua

That sounds like a sound tactic! First Strike is one of the very best offensive SA's and is perfect for finishing off models with tough while minimizing your loses (since they reeive no defensive strikes if First strike kills them). The only real catch is going to be activation order since with 2 troops (even with a spy) it may be difficult to dictate when your Deathriders get to make their first strike charge of doom. But it seems like a fairly strong list that can do well. I like Vandrian with Rhasia so now he has a tough/3 check which could be a game winner for you at times. Here's another list to consider that is a little lighter on the melee front but brings some more eldritch chicanery with an oft under utilized and overlooked Seargent: Necropolis - 500 points Troop 1 Rhasia, Zombie Queen Count Vandrian, Crimson Knight Zombie x 7 Troop 2 Railor of the Unbodied Familiar Deathrider x 4 Railor has a few nice spells in the death tome that can sway things largely in a 500pt battle. Necromantic Surge is a great way to heal an undead (in this instance Vandrian) while Life Drain and Fear are both excellent for offense. You can hang Railor way back and just maintain LoS with the Familiar to keep him safe or change out the familiar for a book of tactics and a luck stone. I think both lists are fantastic though and either one will put the fear of undeath in your opponent when played well! Joshua

An Ettin with a flail. . . That'd be awesome! OR an Ogre. Both would be great. I'm currently on an Ogre/Ettin/Giant kick for some reason. But I can tell you that the Forge Titans won't disappoint, they are fantastic. Joshua

Oh really? lol. That sounds like a challenge and I'm fairly certain my list will wipe your list off the battlefield 10 out of 10 times when played properly. Wouldn't even be that bloody, at least on my side. I'd love to pit my list against yours. Once with me commanding it and once with you commanding it to see how it plays out. Or we could simply do a best two out of three or any myriad of combinations. If you are local then we can "duke it out" on Friday at the Asylum. If not then hopefully you can make it to Reapercon and we can find bloody satisfaction there. Joshua

Not a bad list but I'll do you one better. This list compiles all that you've advised while supplying superior numbers, engagement opportunities, and firepower. Overlords - 1000 points Troop 1 Marquise Zora d'Arengo Luck Stone Kevis, Vizier Moraia, Warbride Balthon, Priest of Khardullis Bondslave Survivor x 14 Troop 2 Taletia, Disciple of Ashkrypt Bondslave Survivor x 6 Troop 3 Taletia, Disciple of Ashkrypt Bondslave Survivor x 6 Troop 4 Taletia, Disciple of Ashkrypt Bondslave Survivor x 6 Troop 5 Taletia, Disciple of Ashkrypt Bondslave Survivor x 6 Troop 6 Taletia, Disciple of Ashkrypt Bondslave Survivor x 6 Troop 7 Taletia, Disciple of Ashkrypt Bondslave Survivor x 6 Doctrine : Followers of Khardullis The principle behind this list is sheer weight of numbers while still being able to bring intense firepower to bear. Every troop has atleast one caster therefore every troop has Rush Attack (due to the followers of Khardullis doctrine) and an effective 15" attack range (Zora gives ALL slave models +3" to their charges instead of +2") or 16" for Zora's troop since the Warbride counts as both a musician and a standard. Hence it is her troop (packed to the brim with offensive and utility magic) that will handle anything with fearsome, nauseating, or any other psychological effect. Conversely you could always drop a "Trance of Khardullis" on some Bondslave survivors to grant them mindless and Martyr (Gotta love models immune to psychological effects that get a MAV 7 attack and have a 15-16" threat range). Taletia is one of only two casters in all of Warlord with access to a 24" spell, Arcane's Overlord specific spell "Chains of Binding" which is a 3" AoE that disables all models affected. This is a great tool for saving return swings against the "meat" of the army. This spell prevents archers from peppering the lightly armored soldiers and even better ONLY affects enemy models so you can drop it on your own troops with no consequence. If there are any doubts to the power of this list, it's the list I used to completely obliterate the "unbeatable" daisy chain darkspawn list. In said battle Rauthuros was killed by 8 bondslave survivors on turn 1. Give it a try, it's good times. Helpful tricks: This list has access to 2 Dominate spells as well as Stone Skin. Nothing says lovin' like a model with 3 MA, Frenzy, Assassin, and DR/2. For a nasty surprise sub out Balthon for Strach the Warmage and teleport the Warbride to where you could use her talents best. Do not forget 0 level spells as Freeze and Bolt are the awesome! Joshua

Definitely welcome aboard! Always a pleasure to hear of and help new players. The short answer to your question about the best army to use around the grave horror is "whichever best fits your play style". That's not a very satisfying reply though now is it? Of course not. You want lists, tactics, and maybe some insight into the dark moldy world of the undead. So we shall oblige. The first thing to know and to realize about any model like the grave horror is that they are EXPENSIVE. At 190 points he takes up 40% of a 500 point list and nearly 1/5th the points allowed in a 1000 point list. Keeping him alive is far more important than using him to kill things. As Shak pointed out, in the later turns of a game it becomes increasingly difficult to destroy big powerful models. If those models have damage reduction the task becomes nigh impossible. So with whatever list you choose always keep in mind the survival of the grave horror until turn 4 and the erradication of anything that can truly threaten him by that time as well. The biggest threats to big models are high MAV low cost swarms (like bondlsave survivors, Woodchoppers from the reven, etc) and models with 3+ attacks that have cleave/mighty. The former will inflict massive damage and you will only be able to wipe out a small portion of them on return while the latter will usually get wiped out in a mutual destruction situation taking the grave horror with them. When building around a big scary beasty like the grave horror it's also pretty important to soften up the enemy before he arrives. The weaker they are by the time he gets to them the better. AoE spells, ranged attacks, and guerilla tactics all contribute to providing a nice mushy target to finish off. Afterall the point is to have the horror survive and usually the first people into a battle don't. Here's a 500 point list that I feel can be vicious while allowing to Grave Horror to get in there and smash things up. Because in the end, even though we want the horror to survive, we also want to watch him make things into paste! Necropolis - 494 points Troop 1 Rhasia, Zombie Queen Malek, the Hated Luck Stone Zombie x 6 Crypt Bat x 3 Troop 2 Grave Horror Doctrine : Graveyard The notion here is to have the zombies and Crypt bats working 2:1 kill teams. 2 Zombies supported by a swift attacking Crypt Bat when possible. This gives 4 attacks at 2 with one attack at 4 (zombies don't get support). That's usually enough to kill most soldiers with average rolling. If not they'll atleast be tied up for a bit. The swift attacking crypt bat will only face one return strike and if he should destroy the model he's fighting will absorb that hit with it's Vampire SA. Meanwhile as mentioned before, the now tough/4 zombies will be difficult to drop period assuming average rolls for tough checks. Rhasia can do all manner of nastiness here with her innate spells from exploding zombies/bats to just generally debuffing the enemy . Don't be too scared of her getting into combat. With DV 11 and tough/3 (thanks to her WL ability) she's fairly beefy. Malek's main duty is to stun people. Icebolt and Freeze are both excellent spells for this and can allow your troops to fight and win against superior combatants (stunned models don't get to participate in defensive combat and only get 1 action on their next activation). As for a 1000 point variant, I'll leave that up to you. After getting some 500 point matches under your belt and gaining a deeper familiarity with the way SA's create synergies with each other I'm certain you'll discover a play style that fits your individual preference. That's half the fun! Also, remember the *Warlord Proxy Rules* . This way you can sorta test drive units before you but down your hard earned greenbacks. Suppose that's all I have to contribute, enjoy being a corpse! Joshua

THe Witch Queen can be given the Crescent of Bile equipment upgrade which allows her to field Rauthuros as a unique solo. Since he becomes a solo he can't field any troops under his command and neither does he gain his warlord ability since he is technically not a warlord at that point but a solo. I'm not certain on that last bit but I believe that's how it works in regards to his warlord ability. I am completely certain about the crescent of bile bit though. Joshua

This would be a good time to check the steps for combat resolution. Your specific example would see the Crimson Knight taking all 6 points of damage on step 7 (as found on page 31 of the Warlord rulebook). Since 3 tracks of damage destroys the model it now immediately makes a tough check as tough states that whenever a model takes enough damage to destroy it it makes a 10+ roll modified by it's tough value (page 42). If this roll succeeds the model survives and is on it's last damage track, should it fail it is removed as being destroyed. So the Crimson Knight would only take 1 tough check regardless of the amount of damage taken. A model can never be forced to take more than one tough check per Fight Action or Shoot Action as all melee and shooting has to happen at the same time respectively. Even if that model is attacked by multiple models in the same fight action it still can only be forced to take 1 tough check (any additional attacks/damage against it are lost). Magic is different though. Spells are declared before they are cast but may then be resolved in any order. So if 2 casters are going to cast fireball and bless, the bless can occur first hence giving the fireball a +1. This also means that if two attack spells are directed at a model it can potentially be forced to make 2 tough checks. As to Vampire. Vampire only works when the model with vampire is on offense (won't work for defensive strikes) and only if the Vampire survives the fight action (page 43). This means that if the Crimson Knight in the example fails it's tough check against it's mighty opponent then it doesn't get to use the SA. If it succeeds though it can use Vampire provided that the model it attacked was A)destroyed and B) an eligible model (not undead, construct, or summoned, etc). The Vampire doesn't even have to be the one landing the killing blow, just has to have participated (and possibly hit the target, need a clarification). If successful with it's vampire SA the Crimson Knight would end the Fight Action on it's next to last damage track instead of it's last. I hope this clarifies things a little. Joshua EDIT : Shakandara got to it a little quicker than me but I'm leaving it up nonetheless heheh

The images look exciting for sure! Looks like a fairly epic battle. Joshua

Also, when in doubt refer to your handy dandy Warlord rulebook. Usually if an action or SA has special rules about it, you can find them there. Most of the action and SA descriptions are good at detailing when they are used, how they are used, and how they can be modified in a turn/activation. Pages 27-35 are the most helpful as far as determining what takes place when however. Sometimes though the Forums contain a clarification for SA's or situations that may seem difficult to interpret, so if after looking it up in the book it's still hazy hit the clarifications thread for further Clarifications . It's also a good idea a lot of times to divorce one's brain from the interpretation of rules. Reason being that sometimes we infer things that aren't written. Read the text and do as it says word for word and a lot of confusion can be avoided lol. Joshua

I don't quite understand the concept of defensive tactics .. atleast when I'm playing Reven lol. But for defense they have plenty of High DV/Tough models and some really excellent archers though and don't forget about the little ones! Goblins make an excellent meatshield between your enemies and your archers/casters. A line of Gnoll or Bull orc archers with a line of Skeeters in front of them is basically two rows of firepower (since the Short goblins won't block LoS for the row behind them). But really, what do you define as a "defensive" tactic? Joshua