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Posts posted by Greenie

  1. First off, welcome! I am new to the game and thinking of starting a Reven army as well. On paper they look awesome. Heres what I have been thinking for a good unit:


    477pts but oh man, what a 477pts...



    Omber Skulltooth

    Gaaguck, Bull Orc Berzerker

    3x Bull Orc Fighters

    2x Bull Orc Berserkers


    All Bull Orcs, all have Bloodlust, so if you take some archers and soften the target up a little thats +1 MAV

    Use Omber to cast Frenzy on the whole troop and wow...6 MA from Varaug, 8 from Gaaguck, and 4 from your other guys....


    Or, Use Incite to give the whole troop Rush Attack to get you across the board and still be able to attack. Now...throw in the unique item Bonesplitter. Put that bad boy on Varaug and he now has Mighty!!! Put it on Gaaguck and he has 4 attacks with cleave.


    The bad thing about frenzy is that it loweres your MAV by -1 for each +1 to the #MA. So, if you do put it on Gaaguck you dont want to frenzy often. But thats where incite comes into play.


    Welcome to the fold!


    EDIT: Oh, and I forgot the Warlord ability. When your Orcs start to die thats a Dis check for each based model. And the whole troop are Bull Orcs.

  2. There is a trap in comparing two datacards side-by-side unless those models fill exactly the same role and have almost identical stat lines. Ogre Warriors and Justicars are very much not the same. Justicars have a better degradation on the DV, endure ranged attacks better, and are rarely denied their attacks due to Dis checks. Ogres are faster, hit harder, and cost almost 15% more per model than Justicars. That's Apples and Oranges. Crimson Knights vs. Justicars? Crimson Knights are better is practically every way... and cost nearly 40% more because of it. That's Apples and... Star Fruit, or something.


    I completely agree. I was just mentioning these as an apples to oranges comparison. Justicars are supposed to be our best foot soldier and they don't seem to stack up against other factions soldiers.


    Your best comparison is the Shield Maidens and the Justicars. Yup, Shieldmaidens will make their Tough check about twice as often as Justicars... but that is still only 1 in 10 times more than the Justicars. Yup, they have Rage - which gives them a +1 bonus for 1 swing in activations when they Charge an opponent (an average Shield Maiden will get to use this SA once per battle). Realize that this means a Shield Maiden will score an average of .1 points of damage more per game than a Justicar (+1 bonus for one attack = +10% chance to hit = .1 points of damage statistically). Yup, they have Smite (Reven); if you are lucky enough to be facing Reven, that's great for a +1 MAV on every attack. Of course, there are 9 other Core Factions, and at least 7 more Factions yet to come. So unless you have a local Reven player you always face, your pure random chance (not accounting for sales data, which shows that some factions are clearly more popular than others) of facing Reven and getting to use that SA is 1 in 17, or about 6%. Yup, Shield Maidens have a MD that is 1 point better across the board. However, Justicars have a better DV on Track 2 (DV is used far more often than MD in the game), and a better Dis on Track 3. And Shield Maidens are 3 points more expensive per model.


    Ah now were getting into Army cohesion. Think Duke Gerard with Justicars and rage. Thats a +2 MAV with two guys on a charge. Thats signifigant. Also, your point of better degrading stat line. There is not that much of a difference. They do go to DV10 on Track 1, but their MD stays higher. All the guys I play with know that Justicars are my toughest Std base size soldier. I also use Hospitaliers. But who in their right mind is going to spread out the damage between several models and not try to kill Crusaders troops off outright? We will just heal them up. The better DT over the long run point is kind of moot. I think it all lays down with your opponent. Do they want to ping you to death or kill your models. I know Warwick, Wild Bill, Mark, and myself try to eliminate the model so that the partially dead guy doesn't come back to bite you in the bud.... Its all in who and how you play.


    You seem to have disdain for DV 11 soldiers, yet there are only 5 soldier datacards with a better DV (all of them DV 12 on first track), and all but one of them is a cavalry model (Crimson Knights are the lone exception) and all of them are at least 61 points, a minimum of 14 points more expensive than the Justicars. You seem to have an equal disdain for MAV 5 soldiers, yet there are only 7 soldier cards with better MAVs (all MAV 6). Note that there is a Crusader model (Lion's Lancer) that meets both of those criteria.


    This is farthest from the truth. I have played against Mercs, Dwarves, Elves, Nefsokar, Darkspawn, Razig, and Necro. Every one of them seem to have something very cool SA combo that just clicks right into place. My point I was attempting to make is that other than deflect which we can have on every guy via doctrine, and lots of healing what do the FOOT soldiers have going for them. If I really wanted to play a cav army I would have picked nefsokar- no offense but I like their cav better. Yes, we do have the largest (by far) amount of Swift Attack and Fast Attack models but only doing 1 point per model won't kill anything. And that's not a very good appropriation of points in having your very expensive models never earning their points back. Example - Pegasus Riders. 100 pt.s of whoopbutt in a can. But as soon as you land them to get their full attacks and stop Swift Attacking back into the air they die. Love the models I made for em, love their stats but until you sacrifice them to the meat grinder they might kill 2-3 models a game.


    I suspect that there is nothing that anyone can say that is going to change your mind, so perhaps this post was a moot point. It is a shame that you feel the Crusaders aren't worth it.




    Oh no please do. If someone could please sit down and explain what each soldier's role would be I would be eternally grateful. I think I have been expecting too much out of somethings and severely under estimating others. Its just no one here plays Crusaders so its not like I have a lot of advice. I just look at all the cool stuff that their armies do.... and never having won a game doesn't help either. And its not that I don't ask Warwick's and Wild Bill's advice on stuff I do all the time. Just that Crusaders is not an army that they play.


    So with that said...


    "Obi Wan Ken-Shakandra, your my only hope"...Except I'm a dude talkin to a dude...And I have a goatee.....but I DO have the silk white dress thing...got it while I was stationed in Afghanistan...I'll put it on if it will help.....

  3. Justicars, enough said.....


    Ok, Ill bite. Here's a run down of a Justicar. 47pts. 3 damage tracks, MOV 5 DIS 7, DV11, MD12 with deflect1 and tough/1. 2 attacks at a 5. At DV 11 they are getting hit left and right. And this DV only lasts on their first track. Now, I am not saying that for 47pts they are THAT bad. But without any provoke and our single model with disable having 1 MA at a 3 keeping them alive is impossible. I have tried running up to three Hospitaliers in the same troop to keep them around. I just wish Crusader's had SOMETHING better. And all those saying how wonderful Justicars are, look at Crimson Knights...Look at Isiri Arachnid Warrior's...


    Or, here is a good example, Shield Maidens. For a measley 3 points more you get +1 MD Tough 2!!!! AND Rage AND Smite Reven......EVERYTHING else is the same stat wise. Same MAV everything.Since when is something that's only 3 points more, has double the tough, and 2 more SA's is balanced?


    Here is another one I have been looking at. The Ogre Warrior. Now he is 5 points more. BUT he has +2 MOV, -2 DIS going for him stat-wise, so you could call that a wash. But for 5 points you get MAV of 6!!!! AND cleave and reach. A MAV of +1 makes a fairly large difference.


    So is anyone seeing my point? I have really been thinking this through and until I finally sat down with the book and compared statlines side by side I feel justified in my opinion. Now, opinions are like something else we all have and you know how the saying goes so please bear in mind- thats what this is - MY opinion. Now, I sure will go to bat for these guys when Warlord 3.0 comes out in however long it takes, but until then they are going in their Sabol foam trays and going on the shelf. Hello Reven!!!!

  4. Without my abundance of Tough rolls, it could have been a victory for Crusaders. I tied Greenie's biggest fighter up with a single vampire that would not die. And I was slapping one or two wounds back each turn.

    While Swift Attack/First Strike/Shock combo on the Prg Riders is cool, it can only deal 1 point per turn. I would land them and take the hits. Use their Flying to hit the prime models, mages and healers and support. Alas, my entire army was hard targets. All I brought were Vampires, after all. And you took me on one-on-one in a lot of cases. You'll lose doing that. Crimson Knights are, in my humble opinion, the absolute best Soldier model in the game. They cost a ton, of course, but they can kill nearly anything one-on-one. Since Crusaders don't have big tank Soldiers, you're going to have to double of triple team a Crimson Knight. Bring Standards (ALWAYS) so you can break base contact when I try to base you one-on-one. If you control the flow of battle, you'll deny me the advantage of bringing nothing but tanks. And bring a mage.

    I still believe Crusaders can be very tough, but they are a finesse army. Once you learn the best way to use them, you'll be winning and I'll be complaining.


    Now if you recall I did that. Sent 1/2 of my army around your right and was constantly basing 2-4 vs 1 at a time. With Gerard I was only needing 2 for the buddy bonus with them. I would put one or two on each guy and then on your activation you kill a guy and feed. Even the double activation in turn 2 was not a deal breaker. My problem was two fold. 1. Dice. I could not roll anything to save my life..... and 2. Crusader infantry stink. I know that their cost is in their DV and damage tracks.....but my BEST foot soldier only has a mav of 5. My single ranged attacker costs twice that of any other comparable archer in another army.


    So now that I have a full belly of goat ribs (hey waste not want not) hopefully my dice will be good to me....

  5. <rant>


    It wouldn't have gone much better. With my entire left flank killed, fed on and several turned to zombies I had no chance. And after beign 0-6,7 or even 8 I have a really nasty taste in my mouth regarding Crusaders. I should have looked at the stats and not the models when I picked a faction. I have tried everything under the sun even using one of Warwicks lists against WildBill to no avail. To make things worse, I putzed around with Army Builder and made a list that looks 150% tougher with Reven. Crusaders have nothing going for them.






    The best unit in the army (to me its the pegasus riders) can only do 1 point of damage each turn. Why? B/C if they land and fight instead of swift attack they get slaughtered. We don't have any provoke SA to keep the important units around. Justicars are 47pts and you have 2 attacks at a 5? nearly every unit in reven hits on a 6 or higher thats not a goblin. Our only disable unit has MAV 3???


    I am surprised that Crusaders have any land left at all in the fiction b/c they sure can't hold it in a fight. Maybe they have really good diplomats.



    Oh, and 90% of this is just frustration so take it all with a grain of salt. But being a former NCO I have allways told it like it is.




    Now to go off and buy some goats for the pagan dice ritual I plan to try next so I won't roll as many 2's......

  6. Well, that still doesn't explain my bloody lip.... j/k :rolleyes:


    What can I say...I miffed it so bad on 98% of my rolls. Tactically, I think I did what I wanted to do. I made him split his forces with him not commiting enough troops to the Right (where his minotaurs were). Even with Inspire and the buddy bonus rolling a two still wont get the job done. his crossbows played havoc on my War Dogs and I don't think they even inflicted a wound before they went poof. By the end of turn three I had Brannor, 1 Justicar, 2 wounded Archers and a handful of Hospitaliers. Thankfully he took his foot off my neck then.....


    Hospitaliers are my new personal hero's. Every game I have brought them they have allways managed to heal 6+ wounds. Nuns....not happening. These lovely ladies are going back to the monestary from whence they came.


    So after 5 or so games and no wins (granted I am playing guys who help playtest everything and are really good) I need to totaly redo what I am bringing. I MUST get out of the Warhammer 40k (which I have played since Rouge Trader) mindset and bringing these same types units. Micah and I had a nice talk about it after and I am going to try mixing things up.


    That said, any recomendations? Combo's that work for others or against them? Not looking for lists - I would rather sit down and hash it out myself but I am still VERY new and not sure what works well.



    Edit for spelling..

  7. In reading through this whole thing I keep reading "Well, just get 3 or 4 in B2B" with the DR model and suddenly it will become clear as rain for you". In theory this sounds great but when you have 2 new players (Not Sure and myself) learning from 2 very experienced, and lets face it devious ::bleep's:: like Warwick and Wild Bill this nearly never happened. Each group of DR1 model and their accompanying Pike troop were separated by just a few millimeter's. And the other question I have is, If I am using 3 47pt. models to kill his single 35pt model....What is the rest of his entire army supposed to be doing while I am doing this? Having some tea and crumpets? Nope, they were repositioning killing off the squishier targets. If it had been more open terrain wise it would have been much worse.




    Troop 1:


    Brannor - W/ Armor of Courage


    Justicar x4

    Hospitalier x3

    Luck Stone


    Troop 2



    Ivy Lancer x4


    Troop 3




    Battle Nun x4





    3 way tie for MVP: Brannor with his armor Inpired every round and it really helped against the Berserkers. Finari for the sheer amount of damage she was doing/ taking. Which brings me to the final MVP - The Hositaliers. I know Finari took over 9 wounds even having to take a tough check. Each time she would get hit these guys would patch her right back up. Out of the 3 in Troop 1 only one had a single CP left.


    Overall not as bad a time as Warwick mainly because I got my big troop into melee with the squishy non-DR dwarves. But I had nothing but frustration when 2/3 of my troops couldn't deal with Not Sures flankers.

  8. Hey folks,


    Matthew from the above mentioned game. Short-time reader first time poster. The dungeon brawl was flippin' Ca-Razy. Like Warwick and Wildbill posted - Mark got seriously hosed with his dice. He needs to head down to New Orleans and consult a witch doctor about why someone would put such a bad voodoo whammy on them. Come to think of it, since they WERE Wildbill's dice and I did hear this weird tribal music comming from his car when he pulled in.....


    Anyways, here is the official list if anyone is interested.



    3x Battle Nuns

    3x Ivy Crown Archers

    Book of Tactics


    Sister Majeda

    2x Battle Nuns

    3x Justicars




    and a Luck Stone


    Started off fairly well with getting Uriel into B2B with one of Warwicks reptus troops, killing off his Captain and wounding the Sgt before he fell. The one thing I should have done differently was I waited to attack the demons (the first two turns I single moved only) HOPING that Mark would atleast put some wounds on them before I evilly swooped in and tried to pick off the remnants. But alas, Wildbill's dice were hot and Marks were not. So that entire troop turned into a points denial strategy. I was hoping to take some more models with them but alas it was not to be. I think I did manage to kill a single demon though.

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