Azazel

@ktyler09 I believe that might be incorrect. Quote from the SA description of Swift attack. " A Flying model with Swift Attack may swoop down and make this single attack against a ground model without needing to land, and then continue either flying away (if it chooses not to land or doesn’t have the room to land) or running away on the ground." According to that, the model making the swift attack does not require the room to land in order to carry out the attack. I do believe I read somewhere, that specifically for ReaperCon, the rules had been slightly altered so flyers with the SA would need room to land in order to use swiftattack. Kind regards Azazel

Hi people! Sorry if I missed this question being covered elsewhere. I recently played against an elven army where this issue came up. Aundine got charged by the elven Unicorn solo with rush attack. To avoid getting cleaved ontop of the unicorn being mighty, I chose to use Aundine's parry SA. How many MA's am I allowed to convert to DV? Is it only 1MA due to Rush attack only permitting a single Defensive strike? Is it 3MA's due to the Rush Attack description stating that "All regular melee rules and SAs still apply." ? Thx in advance! - Azazel

I've had trouble putting her to good use, due to her relative softness at DV9/3DTs. I got the impression that her use was very(too) specific, in the sense that she needed to target specifically softer elites/leaders, cuz she just cant hack it against the more melee oriented models, nor can she handle multiple cheaper models. The past couple times I fielded her, I spend alot of energy trying to maneuver her into favourable positions, but felt like it required too many factors to succeed - Mindblast hitting, other models wounding her target first, MOV6 being sufficient etc etc. I'd love to hear how you make best use of her. (Like, what is a junk activation? :P) - Azazel

By request of our gaming groups Merc player, we've upped the points from 750 to 800 to allow for more rerolls with the scoundrels luck doctrine. Eventhough I'm definately catching the vibe that people are looking to either 1st turn alphastrike me, or swarm me in later turns, I've decided to just spend the additional 50 points by removing a luck stone and adding Aundine to get a clean 800pts on the board. From a gaming perspective, I'd prolly be alot better off fielding an additional 7 broken fodder for screening and speedbumps, but I dont have the models. I do have Aundine painted and ready to go, and I love the model, so eventhough she's been sort of an underachiever the times I've fielded her, she'll get another run. The extra initiative card and spy is nice for sure, but it wont have too big an impact against the deck control builds I'll most likely be facing the next couple gaming sessions. I'm definately exited to see if my build and strategies will hold up against the combined might of the RLU(Reaper Listbuilders Union), who've been very welcoming in terms of helping design lists for crispymerc aswell as the elven player in our group. Hopefully my Demons shall once again feast on the fair flesh of the elven hairdressers as well as on the slackjawed hobo Mercs! - Azazel

That was exactly my intention, in order to take this build to 1000pts. Remove luckstone, add crescent of bile, add Rauthuros as a solo. It'll supply an extra card, as well as the ultimate centerpiece hammer. - The only concern I have with that approach, is the relatively low modelcount, with very few expendable soldiers. As for alphastriking my current build, I usually start with enough demons on the board, that it would take a build completely designed to wipe me out to do so. I usually have something like Marilith, 2 succubi and an imp fielded. So it would take a fairly great effort to wipe em out, since 2 of them a 2DT flyers, and one is 3DT's with DV11. I've given some thought to a more fleshed out 1000pts list involving Ice demons, paintenders and Arachnid warriors, but thats far into the future due to both money and time issues concerning getting the models and painting them. Anyways, work demands my presence. Back to the cottonfields... - Azazel

@Stubbdog Hi mate, thanks for your quick yet thorough reply. In terms of army design and strategy I just might be the blind chicken managing to find corn. I've only used the Demonic Conclave doctrine a total of 3 times, playing against Crispymerc twice, and the elven player once. We've only had 4 games each at 750 pts. I've been somewhat familiar with my list in the sense that I've developed the list starting at 500pts, chosing to place alot of focus on speed and to some extend magic. My opponants have been a bit more prone to altering their lists frequently along the way - especially the elven player and the overlord/crusader player. I guess that makes me somewhat more used to my list and strategy than is the case with them. I did spend some time reading in here, and asked some questions and directions when needed. Other than that I guess I basically just picked up where I left off when playing WHFB - By choosing to try and dominate the movement/speed portion of the game, and maneuver my way into favourable situations against opponants who in general tend to have me slightly outmuscled 1on1. I'll definately try to talk the Elven player into making use of these forums, so he can hopefully reap the benefits of the expert advice freely shared in this community. Its definately a valuable ressource in terms of getting new perspective on things, rather than sitting all by your lonesome cooking up strategies yet untested. We actually do use scenarios to some extend. We randomly roll map-types, like for instance dungeons where you cant fly or use indirect shot, villages, cities, forests etc. We also use map objectives where you might need to capture and hold a section, buildings you need to destroy etc etc. Again, thanks alot for your input. Oh, and happy birthday! - Azazel

Hi again, time for an update! I had 2 games last night with the list in my first post in the thread. Actually it was more like 1½ games, as the elven player I clashed with first conceeded the game halfway into turn 2... I had chosen the exact same approach as I describe earlier in this thread, and slingshot 3 succubi into his backfield to swiftattack Lysette(his main caster). I did this to gain magic superiority and to avoid the always nasty mirror image combo on his beefed up shooters. The swiftness of the takeout on Lysette prompted moral failure for my opponant, and he chose to bumrush a sergeant + an elite into range of Witch Queen, D'Khul and Keradaan w/ barrage. They got destroyed by the combined range attack, and my opponant conceeded. The above battle resulted in a lengthy discussion between CrispyMerc, the Elven player and I, considering the Denonic Conclave doctrine, and wether or not its fair. My opponants are exeedingly frustrated by my build, my doctrine and my strategy, and I feel like I have to go on the defensive, using arguments like "the playtesters and designers appearently thinks Darkspawn are balanced..." etc etc ad nauseum... Needless to say I'm very frustrated by having to defend myself, and its tiresome playing in games where my opponant is obviously demoralized and annoyed. On the other hand I'm not about to just abandon 50% of my army's doctrine options just on account of my opponants frustration, when the playtesters and designers have deemed the doctrine balanced and havent written any erratas or otherwise altered it. We're still very new to Warlord, and far from able to find optimal builds, strategies and synergies just yet. This makes me feel as if my opponants are selling their own factions short, by claiming my doctrine is unbeatable before they've explored fully what their own factions are capable of. The counter argument to this, is that my opponants understandably don't want to be reduced to producing "anti-lists" to combat my build, and want to be able to field an allround build that is still competive against the demonic conclave. A couple questions: * Does their frustration have merit? (In the gamebalance sense.) * Can you fight the demonic conclave competitively while maintaining an allround build, or do you have to field an anti-list? On a sidenote I had a quick battle against CrispyMerc following the above discussion. This battle was alot closer than our previous one for sure. I'll try describe that one in its own post later. I hope all my ranting didn't make your eyes bleed. Kind regards. - Azazel

We use plenty proxy models as well. We do have a WYSIWYG policy though, so for example the proxy I use for Maugratoths is a big demonoid creature with wings etc. Alot of it has to do with poor availability of warlord models in our area. The local store isn't stocked very well, and ordering over the net can be an issue in terms of taxes when we have to order abroad due to very few EU stores with a good reaper selection. In general we're pretty relaxed about proxy'ing, as long as we can see what we're facing. Flyers have wings, spearmen have spears etc. I basically just aim for models I like that clearly depict the statcards they represent. Maugratoths I sub with Hordes Nephilim Soldiers Broken Fodder I subbed with models I like better as well. My Imps are conversions using Succubi wings, Paintender wierd jumpy bases and evil empire ogre kingdom gobbo torsos. I'll prolly sub Ice Demons with Khorne Bloodletters painted blueice'ish cuz I like the models and can get em cheap. I might sub Rauthurous with Hordes Thagrosh the Messiah, both cuz the model is sweet, and cuz its easier to come by at the local store. Thats just how it is when you live in a 3rd world country in terms of wargaming. - Azazel

The gauntlet has been thrown! The loser writes the battlereport! In case I get crushed by one of these mean lists you're cooking up, I'll expect the same service when I head back to the drawing board! - Azazel

Uhm... I didn't agree to go to 1k. :P - Im still busy painting up on Witch Queen, 2 x Succubi, 1 Broken Fodder, 1 Maugratoth and a familiar. When thats outta the way, its a matter of money and model availability before I can invest more in terms of models. :P I'm sure we'll get to 1k eventually, but lets have more than 1 game with the 750pt lists, before we up the points again. - Azazel

@Stubbdog So far I've only had one game with the 750pt list, allthough its build around some of the same ideas I used for 500 and 600pts. The 750pt game was also my first experience with the Demonic Conclave doctrine. In that respect it still feels new and fresh. I've also still yet to play against both the Elven and the Overlord/Crusader players in our group. I can definately see strong possibilities of this doctrine compared to the Pain Cage, and to some extend understand why my opponants are intimidated by its potential power. Money and time will definately work against me in terms of developing the army towards trying new designs regularly. Since we're fairly new to warlord, we are basically fielding whateever models we own, and buying new along the way, when we discover new synergies and combos we'd like to try. Im a working father of 3, where one is only 2 weeks old, so finding the money to flesh out the army, as well as the time to paint it is tuff. Here's the stuff I currently have available, beyond whats in the above list. Rahl Guros Ashakia Jhorxia Aundine Devourer of Mashaf Paintenders (6 I think) I'm really lacking options in the soldier department, and will most likely look into those next. Im especially tempted by Arachnid Warriors as well as more Imp's. What would you people suggest for additional soldier options? - Azazel

Hey there! Just here to help out my Merc friend. I'm the Darkspawn player CrispyMerc is playing against on occation. Here's a link to my list and general strategy. Should make it easier advicing him. http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?/topic/42085-azazels-750pts-darkspawn/ Kind regards! - Azazel

Hey there! In an effort to keep my ramblings gathered in one thread, I decided to make one where I can toss it all in. Here's the list im using at the moment. Darkspawn - 800 points Troop 1 Witch Queen - Familiar D'Khul, Bathalian Maugrathoth, Demon x 2 Incubus/Succubus Warrior x 2 Demon Imp x 2 Broken Fodder x 2 Troop 2 Keradaan - Magic Ranged Weapon Incubus/Succubus Warrior x 4 Broken Fodder Troop 3 Marilith Troop 4 Aundine Fraction Doctrine: Demonic Conclave (I think the list can do Pain Cage successfully as well.) Initiative Cards: 4+1 Spies: 2 Models: 18 Damage Tracks: 38 General Strategy and Playstyle: My basic idea with the above list, is to pick certain aspects of the game and attempt to dominate them, rather than spreading my design thin trying to cover every aspect. I chose to focus on speed, mobility and magic. The idea is to use superior movement to dictate when the fighting is going to happen, while using the WitchQueen, D'khul and Keradaan to wither down my opponant beforehand. I typically look to stun or disable higher cost models before sending in Marilith/Maugrathoth, or to do template damage with spells or barrage before using swift attack with the succubi. In general I look for spots where I dont trade off alot of points to kill few points. I opted to include Keradaan as an additional ranged threat, since his usefullness is increased tenfold with both casters in the list able to barrage him. I chose to use succubi as my main soldier to flesh out the troops. I went in this direction mainly due to them being flyers. They are great for picking off softer enemies, recieve additional DV for being flying, and their presence coupled with their speed forces opponants to take them into consideration all the time. The big hammers of the army are ofcourse the 2 Maugratoth and Marilith. Again chosen primarily for speed/mobility, but also for the fearsome and Shock SA's. Imps included for their provoke adding possible protection for the big guys, as well as for being fast demonic troops good for use with the Demonic Conclave doctrine. Fodder are used for speedbumps and screening for the casters and Keradaan. I like walking them in to btb and not attacking, but rather let my opponants pay their activations to kill them off. It can buy me time to set up a coordinated attack with the models that matter, by getting casters as well as big hitters into position. Demonic Conclave thoughts: My use of the Demonic Conclave doctrine is most likely suboptimal compared to what could be achieved with a build designed solely for the doctrine. I dont "Daisychain" in the common sense of the word, but rather chose specific softer targets where I have a high chance of getting a first round kill using only succubi. A typical example would be a model like Olivia in my friends Merc army. I'll then send in 3 succubi and swift attack with all of them. Against a soft model like Olivia with DV8 and 2 wounds, theres a 90% chance of a clean kill (incl. luckstone). After swift attacking I spread the succubi so they are atleast 5½" apart, while all hopefully are still within 11" of a soft'ish 2ndary target for turn 2. Now I have 3 cheap flying soldiers in my opponants backfield, spaced apart so only 1 can be winglocked at a time. In the same time I've added to my magic superiority. Same idea applies for expensive and soft ranged models. Taking out those makes Keradaan more valuable in later turns. I keep 1 Maugratoth off the table as well. My idea with him is mostly to be able to call on him for backup, depending on how my opponant moves, Cannonballing him on high cost models if a mindblast lands or other stunspell lands, or to overload a portion of the table if my opponant spreads too thin. In general Demonic Conclave seems great when combined with fast models and sideways movement. Like deploying Marilith on a flank, forcing my opponant to take her into consideration when deploying, and then using my first activation to move sideways in an effort to stack up most of my power on the opposite flank. Then launch the Maugratoth to get crushing superiority, while my opponant is stuck with a slower moving troop on an empty flank. (If my opponants go for big pointsink models, I might be more inclined to revert my strategy, and go for a swift takeout launching 2xMaugratoth and Marilith on it, if I assess that I stand a chance of holding my own with the 3 of them in my opponants backfield in turns to come.) Anyways. That was a whole lotta rambling on my part. I guess I need to put this stuff into text sometimes, to further develop on my ideas. Im sure alot of this is gonna be subject to change as I get more experience with Warlord. * Any synergies I'm lacking or overlooking? * How would I best take this concept to 1000 points in the future? * What weak spots do I need to be carefull with? Any ideas and criticism is very welcome! Edit: List tweaked to reach 800points. (- luckstone, + Aundine) - Azazel

Thanks alot for clarifying! I think we have a tendency for mixing up LOS and cover when discussing these issues. Its a good point you make about keeping it seperate. Im still not fully getting it though.... Rulebook states that in order to recieve cover bonus, the shots fired need to cross the terrain piece, but on the other hand also states that if the target model is within 2" of the size 1 wall it recieves the cover bonus. To clarify my question: If we can agree that arrows are fired in a straight line through the LOS-corridor, it seems to me that you can get cases such as these where the LOS corridor easily fits on both bases, and drawing a straight line you wont cross the wall, but the 2" wall rule still provides cover. In this case, allthough poorly depicted by ascii, it would require Keradaan to shoot a curveball to actually have the arrow come into contact with the wall. I hope that makes some kinda sense... :P - Azazel

Hi people. Im here yet again with a couple things my group need a ruling on. LOS issue - ascii etc. W = size 1 wall X = Enemy in btb with size 1 wall. K = Keradaan ..................... ..............X....... ..............WWW ..................... ..................... .K................... ..................... The ½" LOS-corridor is clear between Keradaan and the enemy model. It doesnt cross any terrain/the wall etc. Q: Does Keradaan have LOS and permission to fire normally at the enemy model, or is the enemy model impossible to target, due to being in B2B with a samesize wall? Does the enemy recieve the -2 cover bonus? (I was argueing, that since Keradaan is not firing _across_ the wall, nor is standing directly opposite etc, it was legal to take the shot.) The Defensive strikes vs. Magic issue: A)If a wizard standing in btb with an enemy model casts an attack spell on said enemy, will the enemy get defensive strikes? B) If a wizard standing in btb with an enemy model casts an attack spell on an enemy not in btb, will the enemy model basing the wizard get to make defensive strikes on its friends behalf? (I felt like 90% certain that I read somewhere on these boards that attack magic cast in btb provoked def. strikes, but when the issue arised I couldn't locate it.) Thanks alot for all the help we've recieved on these boards. It has certainly made it easier for our selftaught newbie crew to get underways with Warlord. - Azazel