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  1. Hey all, just a quick picture of an Imperial Dwarf from the early days of Warhammer Fantasy. He is pulling duty as the Noble for my Mordheim Dwarf Treasure Hunters these days. His color scheme set the stage for the entire warband (which I can post another time if there is interest). Questions and comments are always welcome. Thanks for looking!
  2. I'm taking part in a paint along over at CMON. The figure is from an independent sculptor, Olivier Bouchet. It's a 54mm fantasy figure titled Gokan, the Guardian, but as someone pointed out it has a striking resemblance to the comic character Slaine. So that's how I'm painting him. If anyone is interested, the paint along just started. Most people are just receiving the figures and only a few have started to paint. There's still plenty of time to join in. Here's the link to the thread http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?58625-Gokan-group-painting-competition And here's the link to the sculptor's site where you can order the figure [link removed] Here's the current state of the figure I'm doing a full step by step tutorial as I paint this figure so people can follow for the paint along if they want (though I expect to see many different versions/takes on this figure). The tutorial is posted on my painting blog but I thought I'd share part of it here too. This is how I went about painting the tartan. The tartan pattern can seem really difficult and intimidating, but really if you can paint stripes then you can paint a tartan. The trick is to break down the pattern into different parts. I based my tartan on this one I started by base coating the tartan in the background color, orange (Reaper's Oiled Leather). Now I don't worry about all the different stripes, I just start with the most significant ones. Here that's the thick brown stripes (mix of Oiled Leather and Blackened Brown). I lay out the horizontal stripes first. Since the bottom is jagged I used the top at a guide. Try to keep the horizontal, but follow the contours of the cloth and adjust as necessary. Do your best to keep their spacing and thickness consistent. With those finished I add in the vertical stripes. Again, watch the thickness and spacing. Next I add in the dark squares (pure Blackened Brown) wherever the stripes cross Now I go in and do my shading and highlighting. This is also a good time to clean up the lines as needed. If you keep tweaking and cleaning up minor issues as you go the entire process is much more manageable. If you want until the end it can be overwhelming. That looks pretty decent, but we can do more. So now we move to the next most significant detail. In this case the two thin brown stripes on either side of the thick ones. Placement of these is easier as you can use the first set of stripes as a guide. Just watch the spacing. Again, wherever they cross another brown stripe I switch to pure blackened brown to make the cross over section darker. I just continue on down the levels of detail. Up next are the thin horizontal white stripes and the thin vertical yellow stripes. When they cross the orange sections, I mix them with Oiled Leather. When they cross the brown sections, I mix them with Blackened Brown. Not too much, just enough to be noticeable. The end result is complex, but if you just take it one set of stripes at a time and build up the pattern it's really not as difficult as you'd think.
  3. Hey all, my friends and I have been bitten by the Mordheim bug again as of late. For those of you who don't know, Mordheim is a long-abandoned skirmish-level war game by Games Workshop. Bands of explorers, adventurers, and miscreants comb through the ruined city of Mordheim in search of Wyrdstone (radioactive meteorite chunks). One of the best things about this game is that you only need eight to ten models for your warband. That allows for some fantastic converting and modeling opportunities. This fellow is a goblin a pieced together from a variety of GW kits. I hope you like him. Comments and questions are certainly welcome!
  4. Hello, this is my first post to the forum. I painted this Bones Ezren, Iconic Wizard a month or so ago, and thought you might like to see how he came out. I'm pretty happy with the result, particularly the weapon swap. The staff was pretty bent and I was having little success in getting it to remain straight, so I decided to swap it outright for a sword. Questions and comments are welcome.
  5. PROJECTS FOR 2015...I don't paint anywhere as many miniature figures as 95% of you other members do...but I want to finish painting the above pictured miniatures in 2015...Pictured are; Photo 1...The vampire/monster hunting party of the town of Covasna, Transylvania. Photo 2...Two-headed ogre with female victim...will be done on a (KING KONG) type of rock face plateau setting. Photo 3...My (Bruise Brothers) ogre pair. Photo 4...Finish my Black Orc hunter/killer war band. Other projects... 1. Tavern front vignette with strumpet and gentleman. 2. French bordello balcony front vignette with girl in window. 3. Small bayou/glade diorama with the house/home of Marie Laveau. 4. Small interior section diorama of a scribe at his desk.
  6. PROJECT...Elf Quest (Ral Partha Collector Set) SUBJECT...A Las Vegas hotel executive requested that I paint this miniature set for his daughter as a Christmas gift. DATA...This is a set of figures from the " old " days...produced by Ral Partha...this is a boxed set of 8 figures (1 of 5)...released as collector sets...The figures are beautiful sculpts that range in size from (20mm to 24mm)...per request, they are mounted on varnished white oak cubes and the figures are sealed with (3 coats of high gloss varnish). They were a delight to paint...but a real pain due to the tiny size...and getting the tiny details. Paul (Catdancer)
  7. I had one of these guys already fully painted, but I was waiting until I had a unit to post in Show Off. What we have here is an Army Painter bone colour spray primer, blocked in colour for clothing, armour and weapons, a quickshade ink wash, a drybrush all over with Reaper Polished Bone, ink washes to bring the colours back up, reapplication of metallics and finally painting the eyes blue and basing. Pretty easy and fast, so I'm confident that I'll be able to crank a bunch of these out and have a couple of hordes in no time - once this spring weather decides to stay fine for more than three minutes so I can go outside and do some priming.
  8. Hi everyone. Gonna jump right in as a first time GM for PBP. Pathfinder Crypt of the Everflame module. Rules: Pathfinder Core Rulebook 6th printing or earlier with appropriate errata. Never played this module/series. Only items, classes, races, feats from Core Rulebook. 1st level. 20 points "point buy system." Good or Neutral Alignments. No "Traits" Declare "favored class" and bonus HP or Skill Average Starting gold for class from the table, not random. Looking for 5 players so if one is absent, we can still press on. Players roll their own dice and post rolls and modifiers: honor system. I vow to post at least twice weekly ;) Be respectful to me and other members: it may be my first time on PBP as GM, but not my first time as a GM for this game system. Once we have a group, pm me emails so I can discreetly nudge absentees If this sounds OK to you, post some characters.
  9. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/seankreynolds/five-moons-rpg-by-sean-k-reynolds A new Fantasy RPG by Sean K. Reynolds, former designer for both WotC (2nd and 3rd Ed) and Paizo (Pathfinder). He's got a hugely informative Blog about his thought processes and design goals.
  10. So, I don't know if promo is allowed, so message me and I'll remove this if it's not, but I'm just SO. EXCITED! I got featured on the website of the next con I'll be doing the Art Show at! (Awesomecon Indianapolis.) Check it out!
  11. RENAISSANCE FAIR (NOVELTY PIECE)...(THE ROAD TO FAR FAR AWAY)...This is the 19th piece in my Ren Fair project. CREDIT...Full credit for the suggestions for this piece are given to member Darsc...who suggested that I; A. Do a road with a mile marker... B. Do a road with overhanging limbs... So I took the two suggestions and this is the piece that I came up with...hope you all like it! Paul (Catdancer)
  12. Got to thinking about this when I was at Reapercon, and got the idea from someone to paint up a Fafhrd and Grey Mouser. Y'see, I love me some fantasy literature, especially the kind they just don't make any more. I got into it in a BIG way back in the seventies, when the testosterone was startin' to rise, and it's terminal; my love for the genre will be with me until I die. Which brings to mind, for me, the old "who'd win in a fight" argument. Someone mentioned it on a Facebook group, and I thought I'd throw it out here. My choices: *CONAN is the go-to guy for fantasy barbarians, and perhaps the most overexposed, both in his haberdashery and in the media. I'm goin' with the books. He was a fine swordsman, and pretty good with an axe as well, but often tended to depend more on sheer ferocity and brute strength. I have an old Reaper Barbarian, sword pointed skyward... mounted on a rock I took from Robert E. Howard's front yard. *JOHN CARTER, on the other hand, was very good at "weaving a web of steel" between himself and his opponent. However, he generally did this on Mars, where his earthborn reflexes and strength gave him a distinct advantage, even considering the Green Men of Mars' longer reach. What'd be a good model for John Carter? *FAFHRD and the GRAY MOUSER: These two had it goin' on, being the acknowledged best swordsmen in Lankhmar; Fafhrd, being a barbarian and rather huge, used a bastard sword onehanded and a poniard as his main-gauche, and was strong enough to FENCE with the flippin' things. The Mouser, on the other hand, preferred the rapier and a slender dirk. Both fought twohanded, and were as likely to kill you with the little blade as the big one. That, and the fact that they habitually fought together, often back-to-back, and were EXTREMELY familiar with each others' styles, made them pretty much death on four legs unless you had a wildly unfair advantage! Picked models up at Reapercon for these two. *RED SONJA, the original chainmail bikini babe, as drawn by Frank Thorne, was lightning death with her longsword; canonically, the only man who ever beat her was Conan, and he did it by literally knocking her off her feet with a blade beat, a trick that doesn't really work unless you're a huge muscular barbarian wielding a very large, heavy sword, and you're willing to risk killing the person whose blade you're beating. I'd give her props. Chainmail bikini swordswomen used to be a lot more common in miniatures than they are now, for some reason. *INIGO MONTOYA appears as a side character in "The Princess Bride" but is described by the Dread Pirate Roberts as an artist and work of art equivalent to a stained glass window, as far as his mastery of multiple techniques of swordplay. I wish that Inigo, as portrayed by the awesome Mandy Patinkin, had been a pulp novel character. They'd still be publishing him. I love him to pieces, but, regrettably, in his one canon appearance, we see him fence exactly twice, and he loses the first one to the mysterious Man In Black. He does stage quite the comeback, though! Love to see Reaper make a not-Inigo, preferably if they also made a not-Fezzik and a not-Vizzini. *ELRIC OF MELNIBONE is another go-to character in fantasy literature, and I still wonder why nobody's tried to option him for movies or a TV series. Regrettably, his physical condition required powerful magics and/or potent drugs to allow him to do much of anything except lay there, and most of his adventures involve his magic sword, Stormbringer, which made him nearly unbeatable. However, in the first book, he does not yet have Stormbringer, and fights instead with the ancient sword of the hero Aubec; he's able to hold his own against his evil cousin Yyrkoon, who is described as the best swordsman in Melnibone. It's worth noting that in the old Marvel Comics Conan series, Conan and Elric actually met, and fought to a standstill. I do not regard this as canonical, due to Barry Windsor-Smith's portraying Elric in the most ridiculous hat ever seen on a fantasy hero. *CEREBUS THE AARDVARK is the first nonhuman candidate on this list; despite his short stature, lack of reach, and use of a short sword as his main weapon, Cerebus generally won his duels and killed anyone who annoyed him sufficiently, except for Red Sophia, Elrod the Albino, and the Roach, who were all simply much too funny to kill off. There have been Cerebus minis, but none currently in production of which I am aware. *DRIZZ'T DO'URDEN, dark elf scion of Menzoberranzan, and the model of the "noble outcast of an evil race" character template that's been beat to death by roleplayers ever since. Fights twohanded, with a pair of scimitars, and Bracers of Speed laced to his LEGS, to speed up his footwork. Another of the "you're dead before you really had a chance to warm up" opponents that can be faced in fantasy literature. Being as he was based on a fantasy game, I think Drizz't has more legitimate AND knockoff figures than any other fantasy hero, with the possible exception of Conan and Red Sonja. So... who'm I missing? Any contenders? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
  13. TITLE...Black Orc Squad in Ruins at Gnorbal (GW Ork Boyz)...based upon Warzone Mutant Chronicles. DATA...I am working on a squad of (5) Black Orcs that will be walking through a ruined building in the jungle outskirts of Gnorbal. This will be a diorama for a western regional contest (later this year)...but will also be my last entry in the (Spaceship Superstar Contest - Squad Category)...again for participation only. PROJECTS...Beside this project... 1. I am working on a commission piece (fantasy brothel)...sorry, no photos. 2. Ren Fair Novelty piece # 19 (Far Far Away)...on hold...waiting for Hot Stuff order. 3. Ren Fair Novelty piece # 20 (Roadside Shrine)...on hold...waiting for scale lumber order. 4. Ren Fair Novelty piece # 21 (Supply Wagon)...on hold...waiting for scale lumber order. So this is what is currently on my work agenda. Paul (Catdancer)
  14. TITLE...(Kabuki Samurai)...(Warzone Miniatures)...(Mishima Mega Corp)... NOTE...This will be my diorama entry in the (Be A Spaceship Superstar) contest... (This miniature will be entered for the participation ribbon only...it is not for competition and/or judging)! Paul (Catdancer)
  15. TITLE...(THE FORGOTTEN)... DATA...This is the 18th piece to/of my Renaissance Fair project...it again is a small scratch built piece on ceiling tile...size (2.5" x 2.5")...it is the 3rd " novelty " piece of the series. CREDIT...Full credit for the ideas of this piece are hereby given to; Darsc...for his idea and suggestion of an old tombstone...not morbid, but neglected! malefactus...for his idea and suggestion of a bee hive hanging from an old tree! ...I want to thank both of them...and hope they like the finished piece! NOTE...I cut back/down on the taller overgrowth/foliage (for better viewing)...but did try to saturate the piece with the small brown forest toadstools. Paul (Catdancer)
  16. NOTE...I have started work on (2) more " novelty " pieces for my Renaissance Fair project. PHOTO # 1...Will be titled (The Forgotten)...full credit for this piece (idea) is hereby given/acknowledged to/for both Darsc & malefactus...whose ideas will be combined in this piece. PHOTO # 2...Will be titled (Far Far Away)...full credit for this piece (idea) is hereby given/acknowledged to/for Darsc...around whose ideas this piece will be based on. TREE HOUSE...Full credit is hereby given/acknowledged to/for TGP for his tree house idea/suggestion...but after some art draft ideas...it is clear to me that this piece will be a full sized/major " novelty " piece that will not be started until all the small pieces are done and completed. OTHER SUGGESTIONS...From members out there are still under consideration...I currently have a solid (4) small pieces done or in the works and am looking for (2) more...to give me a total of (6) such small " novelty " pieces. Paul (Catdancer)
  17. RENAISSANCE FAIR...Fantasy World Road Guide (Novelty Piece # 2) NOTE...This is the 17th piece of my Renaissance Fair project (a wacky fantasy world road signs tree)...scratch built on ceiling tile...size (2" x 2"). I hope you find it as cute and funny as my wife did! Paul (Catdancer)
  18. RENAISSANCE FAIR (NOVELTY PIECE)...Old rope swing NOTE...This is the 16th piece in/of my Renaissance Fair project...It is a small scratch built piece on ceiling tile...size (2" x 2")...and depicts an old rope swing hanging from a tree. NOTE...I was reviewing my Renaissance Fair project when it hit me...I had no small " novelty " pieces! So after pondering the matter, I came up with the idea of an old rope swing hanging from a tree branch...so this is the finished piece from my (mind eye). OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS...I would like to have a couple of more such tiny " novelty " pieces for my fair set. If any members have ideas for such a piece; I would love to hear from you with your idea. NOVELTY PIECE...Must be in the same size range (small); depicting a select scene that could/would be found at such a fair...but doesn't directly deal with the fair. It is a stand off piece that could be found anyplace...but that would fit into the overall concept of my fair project. Paul (Catdancer)
  19. RENAISSANCE FAIR...Eve's Garden (Adult Materials & Fantasy Booth)... DATA...This is the 15th open air booth in my Renaissance Fair project...In the event you did not see and/or follow the (WIP) on this whole piece...it is scratch built on ceiling tile...size (10" x 8.5")...The (linked) photos show the finished piece. WARNING...This piece contains adult materials and nude statues and paintings. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=465532346883115&l=7013704f42 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=465532463549770&l=e90d603f74 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=465532570216426&l=16b44806d3 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=465532736883076&l=02228a837d https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=465532916883058&l=5c74c330f8 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=465533036883046&l=920b2dd44e
  20. I've used some of the long weekend to work on my backlog of metal miniatures. This one has sat half finished for a few months now. I figured it was time to put the finishing touches and call it done. Here's a link to the front (contains nudity): https://dl.dropbox.com/s/lyfvlgwatkm7goh/fantasyHumans-Gymnast001.JPG
  21. Renaissance Fair Overview...For those who requested seeing the full overview of this project. I have taken a couple of photos so you can get an idea of the full overview look of this project as it now stands...Not shown are...Scribe booth, the livestock pens, the fair sign posts, the 3 roads with signs leading off to the ...privy, gypsy camp and the livestock pens...also not shown are the 2 pieces yet to be done...(Eve's Garden & Privy). Paul (Catdancer)
  22. RENAISSANCE FAIR...Fresh Produce Market DATA...This is the 14th open air booth/piece in my Renaissance Fair project...It depicts the Fresh Produce Market booth...scratch built on ceiling tile...size (10"x8"). The Reaper figure is just to show the scale of the finished piece. NOTE...This was really a fun piece to do...the apple tree took me 2 full days to do from total scratch...the 2 pumpkins (cast out of plaster) took me 6+ hours to carve and paint. NOTE 2...This will be the last posting of individual Ren Fair pieces...I still have the (Privy & Eve's Garden) left to do...but they will have to go back on the shelve due to other work that I have pending. I hope that you (who followed my project) enjoyed this trip into my small fantasy world...I enjoyed bringing it to you! Paul (Catdancer)
  23. RENAISSANCE FAIR...Open Food Court DATA...This is the 13th open air booth in my Renaissance Fair project. It is an open air food court area scrath built on ceiling tile...size (10" x 8")...again shown from concept art drawing to complete finish. The Reaper figure is just to show the scale of the finished piece. SCRATCH BUILT...With the exception of 2 knives & a pistol on the table...everything in/on this piece is completely scratch built (booths, signs, all food, trays, plates, etc.). The awning over the food table was deliberately left as raw lumber construction with rope holding the poles (as if a last minute thought by the booth owner). I hope that you again enjoy this little piece of my miniature Renaissance Fair project. Paul (Catdancer)
  24. tl:dr Birthright takes that 'divine right of kings' bit seriously. I wanna do some Birthright themed skirmish using the Of Gods and Mortals rules from Osprey. Skip to bottom if you don't want setting explanation. So I read a bunch of the Birthright campaign stuff back in the day and really liked the setting but was so/so on the rules. Warning: Redonculously long setting summary for those not familiar with Birthright (aka, OMG a wall of text!) For those who have no idea what I'm talking about, Birthright was a 2nd edition AD&D campaign setting that had Elves that were basically the Sidhe (both Seelie and Unseelie kinda rolled into one), orcs that were basically more Tolkien Uruk Hai than D&D pig-men, Goblins that were more Tolkien Orc than runty little arrow catchers for all the murder hobos of the world, Halflings that were fey and actually cool, and humans with a fairly wide range of cultures roughly equivalent to more realistic versions of Earth Europe around 1000 AD or so than most D&D settings. There were dwarves as well but they didn't feel particularly different to me. Needless to say I'm very loosely paraphrasing here. Essentially, the Elves and the goblins spent centuries merrily murdering the crap out of each other and having a grand ol' time doing typically medieval things to each other above ground and the dwarves and the orcs did more or less the same thing under the mountains. Then out of nowhere (ok, from another continent via land bridge but whatever) the humans come in and jack up the elves and goblins with superior numbers and their unique use of divine magic. Apparently cause the elves were immortal and big on nature based magic they never contemplated something higher powered than themselves. Oops. Anyway, the humans pimp slapped the elves and goblins and pushed them into the deep forests and hinterlands, taking all the sweet, prime land for their kingdoms and proceeded to screw each other and the demi-humans over for awhile. Unfortunately for this little human uber alles party, it turns out the humans didn't just roll up on this continent just to mess up that sweet blood feud the elves and goblins had going for them. They were actually fleeing from a bunch of humans who worshiped your basic Morgoth style evil god and guess what...somebody forgot to close the cattle gate when they crossed the land bridge. So the dark god and his worshipers are coming for the rest of the humans and make a pitch to the elves and goblins to join up and get a little payback. Since the humans and their grubby divine magic messed up the elf/goblin fun, murder times most of them responded with a resounding 'Heck yeah, dude! Btw bro, could we get the hookup with some of that dark divine magic?' Basically you get the idea; blood, tears, wild-hunting elves, etc. Anyway, eventually everybody ends up fighting at this huge battle near a mountain at the land bridge and it's obviously the endgame so the good gods and the evil god manifest and lead their followers in a massive meat grinder of a battle. At some point most of the elves figure out that the dark god is just stringing them along and will turn on them next so they swap sides when its looking kinda grim for the humans. Even though they hate humans, they hate getting stabbed in the back more so they figure better to backstab first right? Eventually the good gods and the evil god along with some favored followers meet on the mountain for a little West Side Story reenactment but somebody didn't read the part of the divine manual that says that if basically all the gods in the world go head to head you've got yourself a real Hiroshima situation there. So we have a big badda-boom and the gods are vaporized into a fine mist of divine blood. Oh, and incidentally most of the mortal armies become fine past as well. For most of them this just means they are worm food a little faster but for the greatest champions of the gods who were pretty close to ground zero they luck out with insta-promotion to the new gods along with insta-ascencion to the heavens to acclimate to their new positions. This is because apparently even aerosolized god-juice doesn't dissipate but seeks a vessel. The majority of the power is absorbed by our newly promoted godlings but enough overspray reaches various other combatants to create a bunch of mortal-ish almost demi-gods; some good, some bad. Course since there were quite a few more good gods the good guys ended up outnumbering the bad guys who looked around and said 'Uh-oh' before hotfooting it outta their. In the resulting confusion some of the newly 'blooded' on either side get wacked and everybody realizes you can steal somebody else's god-juice and therefore power. This is mostly not that important immediately. But later once the good guys get back to their kindgoms and basically take over by right of 'mine is bigger than yours now', several of the biggest bads go on a merry little murder spree amongst their peers to consolidate a little power Highlander style. This is all well and good right up to the point when they accumulate enough bad juju to suddenly start mutating into monsters. Some are a bit disturbed by this but most sort of asses the power that comes along with it and shrug and move on. Fast forward and basically you have a bunch of 'good' guys ruling most of the kingdoms along with a few hard as nails baddies (no scare quotes here, they really are real face eaters) ruling some other lands and making life hard for everybody else. Finally this long winded dude gets closer to the point! So a couple more vital points. Only the 'blooded' can use the real, realm-shaking arcane magic, commoners are stuck with hedge magic. More or less all the races have access to divine magic now, except most of the elves still turn their nose up and stick with nature and time manipulating. Oh, and a quirk of being a 'blooded' ruler is that that whole divine right, tied to the fortunes of the land thing that our medieval rulers snowed the peasants with really works here. On the good side, you get some sweet advantages in keeping the peasants in line and your hands on all the goodies. On the downside you better take good care of your land and people, cause somebody has to watch your back to keep someone from sticking a knife in it to steal your god-juice backed power and also ruining your best tunic. One last cool touch is that most of the monsters from your typical D&D games are singular examples of the bad blooded dudes rather than whole races. So there's a Ghost, a Gorgon, a Manticore, etc. And if they're still around after several centuries of their esteemed colleagues trying to rip their liver out to eat it raw, then they're pretty bad-elf. So, what I actually want to do (betcha didn't think I'ld ever get their didja?) I want to take this basic setting and play skirmish or larger battles in it using the Of Gods and Mortals rules from Osprey. These are a variation of the Song of Blades rules. I haven't actually finished reading them yet but I already know I am gonna love them. You have three levels of troops: Gods-pretty obvious, but essentially a manifestation maintained on the field of battle by the faith of their mortal followers. Legends-basically powerful mortals to sorta demi-gods. Think Hercules, Beowulf, Fenris, druids, banshees, etc. Perfect for representing the Blooded nobles and any weirdness they might have serving them. Not as impressive as the gods, but way more resilient than mortals. Mortals-grunts who also serve as the gods version of duracell batteries. At base game size you get 1 God, 1-5 Legends, and the rest of your points go to Mortals. The Gods and Legends are where the real power is but you better take care of your Mortal troops as well or your God ends up boned. What I would like to know: Any of you guys play Of Gods and Mortals and/or Birthright? If so, does this sound like it would work/be cool?
  25. RENAISSANCE FAIR...THE WATCHER. DATA...This is a stand off piece that is in conjunction with (but not limited in usage to) the livestock pens. It depicts a wolf in the brush as he smells his dinner and waits for the right moment to approach...The piece can be used (as a stand off) anywhere in the Ren Fair area and/or the Gypsy Camp area. The last photo with the male figure is only to show the scale of the livestock pens piece as a whole. Paul (Catdancer)
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