Green Eyed Monsty Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 21 minutes ago, Sylverthorne said: It's also a draft, and a leaked draft at that. Mind you, I'm not saying don't yell about it on the Internet; they need to know we're paying attention. As a creative and an artist, I definitely don't like it; it would severely limit my ability to take commissions, if I'm not misreading. And I'm not really sure I want a situation where I'd need to keep a contract lawyer on retainer for something like that; at the least, I don't think I can afford it. And if I can't... there are a lot of artists and small creators who definitely can't. But for now.. it's a draft. The reaction they're getting makes me hope that whatever they come out with won't be as bad, but... Hasbro's got a rep, and not a good one. >.< Sounds like another attempt at IP theft under the thinly disguised guise of a "licensing agreement". This is one of the reasons why Open Source Gaming becomes ever more popular. GEM 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 4 1 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Chaoswolf Posted January 9 Author Moderator Share Posted January 9 3 hours ago, Adrift said: Per the new Hasbro OGL, if your name contains any letter of the alphabet, you are henceforth the property of Hasbro. Cool. Does that mean they're paying my living expenses? 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristof65 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 12 hours ago, strawhat said: The thing of it is, it had been in JPEGs. I have quite a few pictures that my mother took (it was originally her phone), and they're all fine. But at some point in time, I'm assuming it happened during a system update, it switched to HEIC. For a while there, I couldn't find a program to open HEIC files on my work PC w/o having to pay for a pro-level graphics program I didn't need. It was really frustrating to have customers send me the photos I asked for, only to be unable to open them. We finally found a solution that didn't involve sending them to a co-worker's iPhone and having him convert them for us. 2 hours ago, Green Eyed Monsty said: Sounds like another attempt at IP theft under the thinly disguised guise of a "licensing agreement". I don't think it's that but rather that they're trying to figure out a way to pull the rug out from underneath Paizo and Pathfinder. And they really don't care about the hundreds of small creators it will hurt. A large part of Paizo's success is the direct result of WotC's/Hasbro's missteps, in particular D&D 4e. But instead of just owning it, and letting it go, Hasbro is trying to undo the "damage" they feel Paizo has caused them via the OGL. Yeah, Paizo was able to do what they did thanks to the OGL, but even with the OGL, Pathfinder wouldn't have been near the success it was had D&D 4e been as good as D&D 5e. I also think that the OGL is a large part of the success of D&D 3e/3.5e, and that the bean counters at Hasbro are failing to recognize that in their calculations of how much money they've "missed out on." 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 7 hours ago, Green Eyed Monsty said: Oh to see the thought bubble over this cats head. GEM Thank you for giving me the idea for the GTKY thread! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Eyed Monsty Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, kristof65 said: For a while there, I couldn't find a program to open HEIC files on my work PC w/o having to pay for a pro-level graphics program I didn't need. It was really frustrating to have customers send me the photos I asked for, only to be unable to open them. We finally found a solution that didn't involve sending them to a co-worker's iPhone and having him convert them for us. I don't think it's that but rather that they're trying to figure out a way to pull the rug out from underneath Paizo and Pathfinder. And they really don't care about the hundreds of small creators it will hurt. A large part of Paizo's success is the direct result of WotC's/Hasbro's missteps, in particular D&D 4e. But instead of just owning it, and letting it go, Hasbro is trying to undo the "damage" they feel Paizo has caused them via the OGL. Yeah, Paizo was able to do what they did thanks to the OGL, but even with the OGL, Pathfinder wouldn't have been near the success it was had D&D 4e been as good as D&D 5e. I also think that the OGL is a large part of the success of D&D 3e/3.5e, and that the bean counters at Hasbro are failing to recognize that in their calculations of how much money they've "missed out on." I am of the opinion that you have nailed it. You have accountants and lawyers who have never been gamers and therefore don't understand at the "nuts and bolts" level how gaming works. Their perception is based on an outmoded understanding and concept of boardgames, and that understanding isn't even current for the sort of boardgames that have been influenced by all of the developments in both the RPG and the collectible card game arenas. Personally, I am of the opinion they are juggling cases of Nitro-glycerin at a room temperature of 85 degF plus by even trying to open this can of worms. There is a lot of "prior art" out there that was never actually copyrighted and any attempt to enforce their own assertion of copyright on material that is demonstrably based on "prior art" that was either never copyrighted or would now be in the Public Domain if it was copyrighted in the 70s is going to end up with them eating a very large bill from their legal department and possibly the courts insisting they pay the bills for the people they have attempted to sue. Just my opinions as a gamer and somebody who has had a modicum of legal training in business law. GEM 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrift Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 36 minutes ago, kristof65 said: For a while there, I couldn't find a program to open HEIC files on my work PC w/o having to pay for a pro-level graphics program I didn't need. It was really frustrating to have customers send me the photos I asked for, only to be unable to open them. We finally found a solution that didn't involve sending them to a co-worker's iPhone and having him convert them for us. I don't think it's that but rather that they're trying to figure out a way to pull the rug out from underneath Paizo and Pathfinder. And they really don't care about the hundreds of small creators it will hurt. A large part of Paizo's success is the direct result of WotC's/Hasbro's missteps, in particular D&D 4e. But instead of just owning it, and letting it go, Hasbro is trying to undo the "damage" they feel Paizo has caused them via the OGL. Yeah, Paizo was able to do what they did thanks to the OGL, but even with the OGL, Pathfinder wouldn't have been near the success it was had D&D 4e been as good as D&D 5e. I also think that the OGL is a large part of the success of D&D 3e/3.5e, and that the bean counters at Hasbro are failing to recognize that in their calculations of how much money they've "missed out on." Pathfinder was literally born of a massive rift caused by the release of 4e and a lack of the OGL during 4e. I was in the main hall at Gencon when they announced 4e, amidst the rumbling and grumbling undertone of the crowd. Wotc clearly hasn’t learned a thing. If Mercer, Cooke, Paizo, Dim20, EnWorld and Kobold Press were to unite and create and open source RPG I think we’d see the demise of dnd. Both my dnd groups would absolutely jump ship. And we’d all see a massive increase in the quality of material, adventures and supplements produced. Wotc adventures are garbage, and I think they’re the only ones who don’t know it. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristof65 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 20 minutes ago, Green Eyed Monsty said: ...them eating a very large bill from their legal department and possibly the courts insisting they pay the bills for the people they have attempted to sue. I think they may also be betting on the "deeper pockets" strategy here. I mean, how many other companies in the RPG market can match Hasbro's resources? 1 minute ago, Adrift said: Pathfinder was literally born of a massive rift caused by the release of 4e and a lack of the OGL during 4e. I was in the main hall at Gencon when they announced 4e, amidst the rumbling and grumbling undertone of the crowd. Wotc clearly hasn’t learned a thing. Yeah, while I wasn't at GenCon myself, I quite clearly remember the grumbling and the rift. And you're right - it's obvious WotC has learned nothing - or the bean counters at Hasbro have pushed out/silenced anyone who remembers. 4e isn't really a bad RPG, just didn't feel like D&D. I think it would have done quite well had it been released as "World of Warcraft RPG" or some other popular fantasy video game. I was getting ready to sell/dump my D&D 3/3.5e stuff this year. I think I'm going to hold on to it and see what happens with the OGL now. If WotC manages to successfully kill off the original OGL, those used books could wind up with some value in a few years. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Eyed Monsty Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 26 minutes ago, Adrift said: Pathfinder was literally born of a massive rift caused by the release of 4e and a lack of the OGL during 4e. I was in the main hall at Gencon when they announced 4e, amidst the rumbling and grumbling undertone of the crowd. Wotc clearly hasn’t learned a thing. If Mercer, Cooke, Paizo, Dim20, EnWorld and Kobold Press were to unite and create and open source RPG I think we’d see the demise of dnd. Both my dnd groups would absolutely jump ship. And we’d all see a massive increase in the quality of material, adventures and supplements produced. Wotc adventures are garbage, and I think they’re the only ones who don’t know it. You may add companies like Necrotic Gnome to that list. NG did a complete rewrite of the foundational D&D Game without any reference to any of the copyrightable material and has published not just the basic rules but an ever expanding body of adventures and campaign material based on this comprehensive rules rewrite. Their work is based on court rulings that have pronounced the basic game mechanic involved in D&D as not being subject to copyright. So any game mechanic that can be demonstrated to be derivative from that original work is itself not subject to copyright. There was a lot of money riding on those decisions as the first generation of computer dungeon craws based their algorithms and lookup tables on this information. What NG started is growing into a whole ecosystem as other companies are now publishing material based on this rules rewrite. GEM 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haldir Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 8 hours ago, kristof65 said: For a while there, I couldn't find a program to open HEIC files on my work PC w/o having to pay for a pro-level graphics program I didn't need. It was really frustrating to have customers send me the photos I asked for, only to be unable to open them. We finally found a solution that didn't involve sending them to a co-worker's iPhone and having him convert them for us. I don't think it's that but rather that they're trying to figure out a way to pull the rug out from underneath Paizo and Pathfinder. And they really don't care about the hundreds of small creators it will hurt. A large part of Paizo's success is the direct result of WotC's/Hasbro's missteps, in particular D&D 4e. But instead of just owning it, and letting it go, Hasbro is trying to undo the "damage" they feel Paizo has caused them via the OGL. Yeah, Paizo was able to do what they did thanks to the OGL, but even with the OGL, Pathfinder wouldn't have been near the success it was had D&D 4e been as good as D&D 5e. I also think that the OGL is a large part of the success of D&D 3e/3.5e, and that the bean counters at Hasbro are failing to recognize that in their calculations of how much money they've "missed out on." Paizo didn't do themselves any favors last summer with the controversy/ turmoil that they caused. Hopefully WotC aka Hasbro are hearing the voices on the net. I doubt it, but who knows. 5e is my last rpg as far as D&D, I have no interest in the newest edition. My flgs group knows 5e & will play that. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Chaoswolf Posted January 9 Author Moderator Share Posted January 9 (edited) I say burn it all down and go back to 2nd Edition! I had to learn THACO, everybody should! You kids get off my lawn!! Edited January 9 by Chaoswolf 1 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haldir Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 45 minutes ago, Chaoswolf said: I say burn it all down and go back to 2nd Edition! I had to learn THACO, everybody should! You kids get off my lawn!! Ah, THAC0..... Browsing a hobby site in China & forgot to switch the currency to US as it was in Hong Kong....125 bucks for a model decal!!! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Chaoswolf Posted January 9 Author Moderator Share Posted January 9 Talk about sticker shock! 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haldir Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 For those that grew up in the 70s & 80s.. Adam Rich, dead at 54. Eight is Enough child star He was also the voice of Presto, the magic-user in the Saturday morning D&D cartoon. RIP 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrift Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 My group is also planning to stick with 5e. Saves money. Better for the environment. Sends a clear message as a consumer. I think that’s the beauty of our economy. I literally get to vote for what I approve of with my money on a daily basis. Or disapprove of by not investing in WotC’s next venture. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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