3D Printed Stuff inside of a Box of Goodwill

[Zloyduh]

I've seen this topic come up in the previous round of BOG and this time as well.  Let's have a constructive conversation about it.

 

In Short:  I believe 3D printed stuff should be allowed in BOG.  However, we should come up with rules and standards for it.

 

In Long:

The first time I've participated in BOG, I didn't have much else to offer than 3D printed stuff.  I knew I was most likely going to trade my 3D printed stuff for professionally made things.  I took time going over my options.  I took even more time and effort to print the stuff that I chose.  Some of that stuff did not come out well.  I kept trying, but a few things there..  I just couldn't get them printed out well.  So I had to drop them.  Nevertheless, I ended up throwing in lots of stuff that I felt very confident about at the time.  As I was the last in the chain, I did not get any feedback on the stuff that I put in during that round.

The next round came and a lot of negativity was spoken out against the 3D printed stuff.  So I decided to wait it out and see what happens to the 3D printed stuff that I put in.  I kept an eye on the photo/chatter thread.  And what do you know?  My stuff was picked out a turn after turn.  So that proved to me that 3D printed stuff is great as long as you keep it to a standard.  At this point, I probably sound like I'm full of my self... 

I totally understand where the negativity comes from.  I see 3D printed stuff in these boxes that are clearly failed prints:  limbs, weapons, ears did not come out right.  Squished bases.  This is the biggest problem in my opinion.  If your 3D print is not good for you, then it's not good for anyone else.  Let's make this one a rule #1.  Another problem is brittleness.  Over-curing is the problem here.  And maybe the resin that you chose.  But for this one, it's very individual.  All depends on the printer and the resin you have.  Make sure your stuff does not break if you drop it from 3 feet high to a carpet floor.

 

I'll stop here for now.  Please voice your opinion here. If you've already done so in a separate thread, please bring it over here.

 

Cheers!

~Z

Edited December 20, 2022 by Zloyduh

[Inarah]

I'll repeat my previous comments: 

I'm ok with 3 prints, especially since sci-fi figures are harder to come by than fantasy.  But people need to consider what they are putting in the box.  Figures with extended arms holding thin spears or wearing long streamers on their clothing are going to get broken because the USPS takes no care during delivery.  If your 3d print would break by being dropped from table height onto a cement floor you can be sure it will break when your postal carrier drops the box on the next guy's doorstep. 

 

Ideally pack them inside a couple layers of bubble wrap and a small sturdy box.  You can get packs of 4-5 small white jewelry gift boxes at places like Joanns, Walmart, and Target for $3-4. 

 

And I'll add: remember that this box was set up primarily for Reaper figures, but it includes other manufacturers, including 3d printed stuff, and it's the only trading allowed on the forum.  There's always going to be figures in the box you aren't interested in, Bones1, chibis, historical figures, metal, plastic, etc.  If you ONLY want Bones Black, or only want dragons, or you hate elves or 3d prints, you're going to be disappointed a lot and maybe this isn't for you.  There are sites you can go to and buy/trade exactly what you want. 

 

That said, I agree with Zloyduh that the BoGW is not the place for failed prints.  I recognize that not everyone has the same quality printer, and people have different standards about what is "good enough", but if parts didn't print, or it broke, or your supports won't come off, or the resin won't cure, then probably it doesn't belong in the box. 

 

 

[Broonkah]

I suspect I will be in the minority, but I have always approached the BoGW as an example of one person’s discard is another’s treasure.   Some people prefer metal, some bones, some resin, some lead, some board game pieces and some basing material.   For me, 3d prints fall in as another subcategory.  
     I have selected some 3d prints in the past that were obviously imperfect/

incomplete prints.  I liked what part of the figure was there and thought “hmm a little green stuff and this would be cool”.   
    I understand the argument against 3d prints and perceived value when compared to commercial minis.   One could make a similar argument for any of the subcategories.   Some people are seemingly terrified by lead miniatures.  I’ve been collecting since the 70s and have a large number of lead figures.  I think the danger is overstated, but to each their own.  
     Perhaps the approach might be to have BoGW boxes by category preferences.  I think this might become more headache for Chaoswolf than anyone would want to endure.   And I suspect there would be an issue with that solution within 2 cycles of the BoGW anyway.  
     I enjoy the BoGW.  I look forward to it more than I would have expected.  Some part of the joy comes from seeing the enjoyment of others selections.   But also thinking about if others will find what I add useful or amusing.   
    If consensus is for more rules, so be it.   In the end, my hope is we all appreciate the varied aspects of the hobby and remember that most of the rest of the world dismisses our interest in “toys”.   Ok, ramble over.  
 

Have a great day. 
 

B

[Marc]

Repeating what I posted in the thread that spawned this …

 

I would MUCH rather not see 3D prints in the boxes personally. I’d rather see only professionally cast minis (plastic, resin, etc.) from legit mini companies - it’s cool if some folks like to 3D print stuff for their own use, but it doesn’t seem quite right to put in a bunch of (possibly lesser quality home prints) and then take out legit minis made by Reaper or some other professional company.

 

I honestly don’t mean to sound negative, but to me it feels kind of like taking out a hardcover book from WotC or similar and then putting in a PDF you printed on your home printer as an even exchange, if that makes sense. A home print out of a PDF is fine for your home use, but it’s simply not an even swap for a professionally produced hardcover.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Marc

[haldir]

I have an opinion on this one, but I'll save it for later when know what I want to entirely say on the subject, being that I am pro-3d printed figures & such.

[1dunnj]

I have no problem seeing 3d print stuff. The quality of the 3d printed stuff in our box was well done (a little stringy on the fdm stuff which is easy to remove but significantly better resolution than any other fdm stuff i've seen in person, the resin stuff had some broken limbs due to packaging, not quality)

Our box in general was pretty over stuffed, beat up, and not safely packaged, so i think that was probably the biggest reason for damage (squishing). So yeah, packaging your prints safely is a little more important than bones, but also important with metal and hips plastic.

[Ziggy]

Ill add my opinion. Both times I've partaken in the exchange, I've grabbed at least one or two 3d printed minis from the box.  So I guess that means I'm in favor of it. 🙂

But i can see both sides of the issue.

 

To me at least these exchanges are more about removing the pile of never gonna paint these, out of my house.  As long as the entire box isn't 3d printed pieces, I think its ok.

[Cygnwulf]

Chiming in since I was one of the people commenting before - 

I don't perceive 3d printed as being 'lesser value' as long as they are GOOD 3d prints, particularly if we're considering 1st and 2nd generation bones figures in this comparison.   I'm also not going to mess with 3d printing for things I can get professional minis of, but when it's unusual, specific, or exceptionally well done/highly detailed and desirable, I'm all for it.  3d printing lets minis that fit those requirements exist that might never make it past a professional art director as being able to sell enough volume to be worth the production costs, or able to be cast without significant modification.

 

I'm an avid printer, I have both resin and filament.  I've both taken and replaced with good prints that I printed andnever got around to using.  with one exception, I haven't printed stuff just to place in the bogw, and the one exception was because I knew the next person downstream from me was looking for what it was - I also added it by itself and not as a replacement as I felt that was out of spirit.   I tend to view the spirit of the BOGW as good stuff that you don't need/want any more. 

 

I think I have to second the "Don't use it to dump failed sculpts"

Failed prints, FDM prints with thin ankles that were never goign to hold up, I'm going to push them aside just like I will the bones figures that have had arms hacked off.  

 

So I think, in short, if we're allowing 3d prints we should stipulate that they need to be good quality, saleable 3d prints.  I'll also say unless it's something that's really too big to be going in the BoGW anyway, I'd avoid FDM prints. They just can't have the resolution and quality that resin can.

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Cygnwulf

[Inarah]

27 minutes ago, Cygnwulf said:

 

So I think, in short, if we're allowing 3d prints we should stipulate that they need to be good quality, saleable 3d prints.  I'll also say unless it's something that's really too big to be going in the BoGW anyway, I'd avoid FDM prints. They just can't have the resolution and quality that resin can.

 

 

I'd have an exception for terrain and other objects d'art that folks would find useful.  FDM is pretty good for larger pieces like terrain, where a little texture is ok and if the resolution is right, you can make nice items like dice boxes or game tokens/counters.  That should be allowed in the box with the same stipulation, good quality, no failed prints.

 

 

[Cygnwulf]

1 minute ago, Inarah said:

FDM is pretty good for larger pieces like terrain, where a little texture is ok and if the resolution is right, you can make nice items like dice boxes or game tokens/counters.  That should be allowed in the box with the same stipulation, good quality, no failed prints.

 

Ok, I can agree on the things like tokens/counters/base details type of things, within the usual guidelines.  And while I agree that FDM excels at larger objects like terrain, I'd be careful of putting that in here, we already have the guideline to avoid anything bigger than 54mm.

[howdyhamster]

My opinions:

Complete and intact 3d prints, even if not professional: Great

Broken or slightly failed prints that someone might want to fix with green stuff: Acceptable as freebies

Pile of PLA spaghetti: No

 

[Chaoswolf]

Thanks to @Zloyduh for splitting this off into a new topic.

 

Just to clarify, this isn't as much a discussion about if 3D prints belong in the box, it's more about regulating their inclusion. My apologies if my wording made it unclear.

 

Here's my opinion/what I agree with:

 

19 hours ago, Inarah said:

Ideally pack them inside a couple layers of bubble wrap and a small sturdy box.  You can get packs of 4-5 small white jewelry gift boxes at places like Joanns, Walmart, and Target for $3-4. 

At the very least, an effort to protect the 3D print items should be made. That ^^^^ is a very good idea/guideline.

 

19 hours ago, Inarah said:

That said, I agree with Zloyduh that the BoGW is not the place for failed prints.

I agree to a point; see below¹.

 

17 hours ago, Broonkah said:

Perhaps the approach might be to have BoGW boxes by category preferences.

I love you guys and enjoy the BoGW as much as you all, but no, not going to happen. You're right, that would be a massive headache. Also, a whole bunch of separate (insert type of material here) Boxes of Goodwill could end up pushing Reaper's patience with us past the limit. See below².

 

8 hours ago, Cygnwulf said:

 

I don't perceive 3d printed as being 'lesser value' as long as they are GOOD 3d prints, particularly if we're considering 1st and 2nd generation bones figures in this comparison. 

Very good point. I like Bones, but some of the first few waves are kinda rough.

 

8 hours ago, Cygnwulf said:

 

So I think, in short, if we're allowing 3d prints we should stipulate that they need to be good quality, saleable 3d prints.

I agree with this, too. Mostly, see below¹.

 

1 hour ago, howdyhamster said:

Broken or slightly failed prints that someone might want to fix with green stuff: Acceptable as freebies

1) I also agree with this, tentatively. It's the same as including bits from GW figures, or a Bones (or any other) figure that's had a part cut off for use in a conversion. It's not an intact, ready to paint figure, so it doesn't count for swaps. If we start to see a bunch of straight up junk, we'll need to revisit this.

 

18 hours ago, Inarah said:

...remember that this box was set up primarily for Reaper figures, but it includes other manufacturers, including 3d printed stuff, and it's the only trading allowed on the forum. 

2) Inarah makes a very good point here; this is a bit of a gray area. We're not 'getting away' with anything here, as I've discussed it with Reaper once I became a moderator. Reaper knows it goes on, but there have NEVER been any problems related to the BoGW, so they are ok with ignoring it since it doesn't cause them any headaches. All that could change if this starts to become a pain in the butt for Reaper, however. This is another reason that I think multiple different BoGW's would be a bad idea. 

 

 

 

So, TLDR: 

3D prints are fine to be in the box.

They need to be of good quality.

They should be protected.

Slightly damaged/imperfect prints are ok as FREEBIES. 

 

 

Please keep the thoughts and opinions coming, there's been some really good stuff so far.

[Zloyduh]

1 hour ago, Chaoswolf said:

3 hours ago, howdyhamster said:

Broken or slightly failed prints that someone might want to fix with green stuff: Acceptable as freebies

1) I also agree with this, tentatively. It's the same as including bits from GW figures, or a Bones (or any other) figure that's had a part cut off for use in a conversion. It's not an intact, ready to paint figure, so it doesn't count for swaps. If we start to see a bunch of straight up junk, we'll need to revisit this.

 

Not always true.  I'd actually say, sometimes - yes, but most of the time no.

The problem is the texture of the figure, how fragile it is.  If you cut off an arm with a weapon from a bones figure and glue it onto something else, that arm won't break in the middle of itself. 

If a brittle limb from a brittle 3D print mini is glued onto something else, that has a high chance of breaking itself.  If you drop that conversion figure from 3 feet high onto a carpet floor - chances are that limb itself would break in the middle somewhere.

(Hope this makes sense)

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Zloyduh

[Zloyduh]

2 hours ago, Chaoswolf said:

22 hours ago, Inarah said:

Ideally pack them inside a couple layers of bubble wrap and a small sturdy box.  You can get packs of 4-5 small white jewelry gift boxes at places like Joanns, Walmart, and Target for $3-4. 

At the very least, an effort to protect the 3D print items should be made. That ^^^^ is a very good idea/guideline.

 

A picture's worth a 1000 words 😉

 

 

[Count Urlik]

I’ll caveat this with the declaration that it was our first BoG.  However, it was really fun and I’d love a chance to do it again.

 

my perception was along the lines of Broonkah’s observation about trash vs treasure.  If the only thing in the box was core KS minis, I probably would have been a little disappointed.  It was the unusual or odd that I was hoping for, and 3d prints fit squarely in this category.  
 

I don’t have a 3d printer, so I do t have a lot of handling experience with them.  However, there were a handful of little ‘bits’ in the bottom of our box, but I don’t think they were all 3d printed, and some were obviously metal.  Our box did arrive pretty stuffed , but I can’t say anything was necessarily poorly packed, and we mostly just added more tape, topped it off with more figures and sent it along.  So, my apologies if things arrived more broken at the next stop.

 

I found the ‘equal value’ part difficult.  To me, trading a mix of high detail, unique 3d prints and metal figures for a bunch of Bones 1 goblins would seem like cheating.  I don’t like translucent bones, but I wasn’t sure if everyone felt that way, so we only put a few in, and kind of valued it as a 2 for 1.  TBH, we basically just put the ‘in’ and ‘out’ piles next to each other and added stuff until they seemed fair.  Then we put in some more stuff that I hoped would be seen as freebies, although I’ll admit I didn’t label them as such.  I felt that ‘unusualness’ needed to be balanced as much as the figure count.  I added a 3d print of some little round bug monster my neighbor gave me, but it was because I had 3 more, and I figured no one downstream of me was likely to have seen it.  I hope it doesn’t cause consternation.

 

Anyways, we collectively breathed a sigh of relief when we saw some of the stuff we added were picked up on the next few stops.  It’s really fun to scour the pix to see if your additions get a new home.  I’ll bet that feeling is even more profound if it’s a figure you printed, and that should probably figure in a bit as well!