Any advice for using MSP 09332 Oxidized Red (or the other two "oxide" colors)?

[Wolf Munroe]

I recently bought
09331, listed here on the website as "yellow ochre" but on the bottle as "oxide yellow"

09332, listed here on the website as "oxidized red" and on the bottle as "oxide red"

09333, listed here on the website as "oxidized brown and on the bottle as "oxide brown"

 

I usually put a drop of paint on the lids of my dropper bottles and it dries overnight.  I did this with 09332 and it was not dry after two days.  Then when I tested if it was dry, it wiped off, and I had to reapply it.  That's fine.  It's dry now. 

I put 09332 Oxide Red on a metal miniature (03563 Tinley, female wizard) that had been primed black and dry-brushed gray.  The paint, which I had shaken vigorously (with an agitator I added) looked very glossy, to the point I was worried I did not shake it enough.  It dried very clear.  I waited overnight and applied a second coat.  It was still very very clear.  I noticed some damage to the paint, to where I could see the metal underneath so I left it alone to fully dry again and came back to it a few days later. 

After a few days, tonight I attempted to put some gloss on the existing paint before I re-primed the bald spot(s) and the paint tore right away under my paint brush, down to the bare metal.  When I saw this was happening, I just got a toothbruth and was able to simply brush most of it off.  The areas where I had not applied any 09332 Oxide Red, notably the face, clavicle, and hands, that were all painted with a coat of 09044 Tanned Skin, did not easily brush off like the parts I had painted with 09332 Oxide Red, so I'm led to believe this is a difference in the paints.  (I had not painted the hair yet except with the primer and dry-brushing gray.  It also did not easily brush off.)

I'm stripping the remaining paint off of Tinley presently (mostly tanned skin, but a little oxide red in the crevices) so I can try again when she's fresh again. 

So I guess I have a simple question that might have a complex answer: What's the trick to painting with 09332 Oxide Red? 

Mine does not seem to behave like my other Reaper paints. 

I like the color of it, but I don't think I know how to use it. 

 

 

Edited May 21 by Wolf Munroe
First edit: Added information. Second edit: Spacing.

[Inarah]

I've had no problems like you describe with the oxides. 

 

The first drops out of a bottle can sometimes come out clear looking because the paint separates over time and medium gets up the nozzle and does not mix when you put it on the shaker.  You can tell when it comes out that it's not mixed. 

 

Having the paint come off is perplexing.  What primer did you use, and was it primer or black paint? Usually primer on metal has very good adhesion, but black paint does not.  Additional layers of acrylic paint should not reactivate dried acrylic paint or cause peeling.  Peeling is usually caused by something on the surface (like mold release or finger oils) causing the paint not to stick, or by rubbing with hands or too hard with the brush.   Are you using a natural hair brush or a synthetic? 

 

What kind of sealer did you use?  Was it spray or brush on? Those should not react with dry acrylic, but weird tings have been known to happen. 

 

Overall, it's sounding like you got a bad batch, do you remember when you bought them.  

 

[strawhat]

Mine went on just like all Reaper's others MSPs.

 

I don't remember if it was partially separated when put on the pallet or not, but that has happened before.  I just re-mixed it on the pallet with a paper clip or spare bit of sprue.

[Wolf Munroe]

10 hours ago, Inarah said:

I've had no problems like you describe with the oxides. 

 

The first drops out of a bottle can sometimes come out clear looking because the paint separates over time and medium gets up the nozzle and does not mix when you put it on the shaker.  You can tell when it comes out that it's not mixed. 

 

Having the paint come off is perplexing.  What primer did you use, and was it primer or black paint? Usually primer on metal has very good adhesion, but black paint does not.  Additional layers of acrylic paint should not reactivate dried acrylic paint or cause peeling.  Peeling is usually caused by something on the surface (like mold release or finger oils) causing the paint not to stick, or by rubbing with hands or too hard with the brush.   Are you using a natural hair brush or a synthetic? 

 

What kind of sealer did you use?  Was it spray or brush on? Those should not react with dry acrylic, but weird tings have been known to happen. 

 

Overall, it's sounding like you got a bad batch, do you remember when you bought them.  

 

Yeah, I thought it didn't look mixed the first bit out of the bottle (which is normal and I've seen it before), so I vigorously shook it to make sure.  (I also had cleared the nozzle with a sewing pin.)  And this was applying it to the lid.  I didn't even put it on a model until the third use, as the first use out of the bottle was just for the lid, the second use out of the bottle was for the lid again because the first bit came off. 

The primer was MSP 09214 Black Primer, which is what I've been using for awhile now.  (The bottle is low, but not empty.  I have a second bottle on stand-by.)  The gray dry-brush was Apple Barrel Pewter Grey, which I've been using for longer than I've used Reaper paints, and without incident.  The paint was not reactivated, it just rubbed off with the brush across it.  There was damage to the paint (localized) after the second coat of oxide red before being touched by the gloss varnish.  I was applying the varnish as a protective layer before attempting to prime the damaged paint spot.  The gloss varnish I use is Pledge with Future.  Again, I have used it for years without issue.  (Though people sometimes like to make an issue about it.)  I brushed it on with the same cheap Daler Rowney size 1 synthetic brush I used for the other coats. 

I just got the three oxide colors about two weeks ago (delivered on 10 May 2023) from Pippd in the same order with the mini.  This is my first experience painting with these colors, but not my first experience with Reaper MSP.    All three bottles ("oxide yellow," "oxide red," and "oxide brown") specify 11E21 up the side above the Texas emblem.  (I've always guessed that has something to do with the date of manufacture.  Probably not the batch number since they all have the same one and they're different colors.) 

The miniature was washed with soap and water, and a toothbrush before being primed the first time.  In the past day, it has been stripped with Simple Green and I'm ready to try again.  I plan to try again with the same Oxide Red for her skirt, though given how transparent it was, I may do something light under the red first. 

Anyway, if it is -supposed- to behave like other paints, I'll try again and see how it behaves.  At least now I know it's very transparent so I can account for that in the under-painting.  I just thought there might be some trick to it since it is identified as "oxide" and it seemed to be acting differently. 

I'll follow up with the results from my second attempt. 

[Inarah]

Nothing you've described is raising any warning flags for me, it's pretty much how I paint, too.   I haven't used the Pledge in a while though because it does not play nice with Reaper paints.  But applied as a top coat it should be ok. 

 

 

[Samedi]

I'd replace the bottle, that doesn't sound right.

The paint from my bottle is fairly opaque - until I thin it, of course.

And I also do the paint-drop-in-the-lid-thing and had no problems with the oxide red. 

[Wolf Munroe]

16 hours ago, Samedi said:

I'd replace the bottle, that doesn't sound right.

The paint from my bottle is fairly opaque - until I thin it, of course.

And I also do the paint-drop-in-the-lid-thing and had no problems with the oxide red. 

Yeah, the test swatches I've done look more like what's on the right than the left there.  Almost exactly like what's on the right, except that's without thinning. 

I'm doing some new test swatches to see if I get different results when I'm mindful. 

[Count Urlik]

I thought that Anne said that the oxide paints are single pigment paints, similar to the ‘clear’ series?  They certainly don’t behave exactly like the clears, but it might explain why they are a little different from typical MSP or Bones paints.  I think their real advantage is in giving reliable results when mixing and defined hues for glazing.

Edited May 23 by Count Urlik

[Wolf Munroe]

11 hours ago, Count Urlik said:

I thought that Anne said that the oxide paints are single pigment paints, similar to the ‘clear’ series?  They certainly don’t behave exactly like the clears, but it might explain why they are a little different from typical MSP or Bones paints.  I think their real advantage is in giving reliable results when mixing and defined hues for glazing.

Yeah, I saw Anne talking about them on one of the streams as single pigment paints (like 5/6 of the Clear Brights) so decided to pick them up.  The Clear Brights are great. 

So far the Oxide Red hasn't worked as I expected.  I haven't used the yellow yet, and have barely used the brown.  I don't know yet if it's a "bad batch" as was suggested above though, or if they're just something I need to learn. 

[Zloyduh]

On 5/23/2023 at 1:34 PM, Count Urlik said:

the oxide paints are single pigment paints, similar to the ‘clear’ series?

This sounds like what my experience has been. They are great for glazing. I like highlighting brown with Red Oxide. No need to mix 2 paints, just do the base coat in brown and then highlight with Oxide Red. 

[Wolf Munroe]

OK, so I've been repainting 03563 Tinsley, Female Wizard, which is the same miniature I had a problem with the first time. 

 

I stripped her to bare metal with Simple Green.

I primed her with MSP 09214 Black Primer.

I drybrushed her with Apple Barrel Pewter Grey.

I drybrushed her with Apple Barrel Pewter Grey and Apple Barrel White.

I applied one coat of MSP 09612 Chocolate Bar to her staff.

I applied one coat of MSP 09332 Oxide Red to her dress, painting over black primer, gray drybrushed, and white drybrushed sections.
I waited more than a full day to make sure she was dry.
I applied a coat of 09044 Tanned Skin to her exposed skin and places on the miniature that I wanted to make her dress transparent.  This was painted OVER a layer of Oxide Red on her dress.  I let her dry overnight. 

I applied a second coat of MSP 09332 Oxide Red to her dress, painting over 09044 Tanned Skin in places.

I waited more than a full day to make sure she was dry.

I applied a third coat of MSP 09332 Oxide Red to her dress.

The entire thing was still very transparent.  I let it dry overnight again.

I decided to try mixing the MSP 09332 Oxide Red with some glaze medium and try again. 
I mixed the MSP 09332 Oxide Red with Liquitex Glazing Medium and a few drops of water.  (Liquitex Glazing Medium is very thick.) 
I just now ATTEMPTED to paint the MSP 09332 Oxide Red and Glazing Medium onto Tinsley's dress. 

The brush covered in the Oxide Red Glaze Mix pulled up all the coats of the MSP 09332 Oxide Red EXCEPT what was painted over the 09044 Tanned Skin.
The paint that came up was like a bubbly slurry. 
This time the primer coat was not damaged. 
I rinsed the miniature off under warm water and the primer and dry-brush layers, and the bits that had tanned skin under them, all appear undamaged. 

 

I think there's definitely something wrong with the paint.  I want to try two things:
1.) Just start with the Oxide+Glaze mix.  See if that works better.  That Glazing Medium dries super-hard and glossy normally.  I just used it yesterday with 09097 Clear Blue on a different miniature and painted over that coat today.  
2.) I could try undercoating the entire miniature with Tanned Skin.  The Oxide Red seems to adhere to it better than the primer.  

If it doesn't work after one of these solutions, I'll just give up on it.  I noticed it's very similar in color to 09242 Carrot Top Red, so I can just paint the dress with that.  I really just wanted to use my new Oxide Red paint.  

I also need to thoroughly test the other two "oxide" colors I got because this one has me concerned.  They didn't have any significant issues adhering to the cap though, and I've put the 09333 Oxide Brown on 02484 Mummy Lord of Hakir and so far it seems fine, but I haven't tried to paint over it yet. 

 

  

[Mad Jack]

 

 It's possible your paints may have gotten frozen at some point... I lost a lot of my paints over the winter due to not having heat in the house, and pretty much all the ones that went bad react just like that.

 

[cmorse]

Try mixing it with a toothpick. There is a decent chance something has solidified in the bottle, possibly from freezing as Mad Jack mentioned.

[Wolf Munroe]

On 6/1/2023 at 11:05 AM, Mad Jack said:

 

 It's possible your paints may have gotten frozen at some point... I lost a lot of my paints over the winter due to not having heat in the house, and pretty much all the ones that went bad react just like that.

 

Hmm.  I just got the paint at the beginning of May, so I certainly didn't freeze it.  I ordered from Pippd and it shipped from Denton, TX, so I hope it didn't freeze in Texas, and I didn't order it during the cold season (plus the other 6 colors I ordered seem fine from the shipping), but weather has been weird the last few years. 

 

 

19 hours ago, cmorse said:

Try mixing it with a toothpick. There is a decent chance something has solidified in the bottle, possibly from freezing as Mad Jack mentioned.

I'll give it a shot.  It certainly can't hurt at this point.  I did put a stainless steel machine screw in the bottle already to act as an agitator, as I do with all my paints, but I can try stirring too.

Edited Friday at 08:10 PM by Wolf Munroe
Added two lines of whitespace between the two replies for improved readability.