Point awards in a game

[Cerridwyn1st]

Under the rules, when there is a casualty, the player dealing lethal damage gets the points for the model. If the game allows looting, then the looting player rolls the appropriate dice and takes that bonus award.

 

OK, so what about spellcasters? The rules say "model", so I assume the killing player does NOT get to get the points allocated for spells. Do they just go poof into the ether, or what?

 

Currently, I allow a looting player to take the spells. If he or she has a spellcaster of the same type, then the spells can be cast by that magic user, as if they were scrolls.

 

This mechanic was mentioned somewhere in the book. I may be misapplying it; if so it wouldn't be the first time I messed up on the rules.

 

Oh, well, live and learn.

[airhead]

Wow, loot the guy, get the staff of power, loot again get the scroll tube, loot again get greater magic armor.

 

I could see this in a campaign where looting the spells & magic off a guy gets very important.

 

I also understand where the points for a loot game are very important

 

Just finished a Malek, at 45 base points with 295 points worth of goodies & spells on him. (Not hard really.) Does the looter get 45 points (Malek), 65 points (Malek & his familiar), 180 points (Malek & his gear), or 340 points less spells cast?

 

Cerridwyn, doesn't the looting guy have to get base contact with his spellcaster to transfer the spells, with the spellcaster making a loot action to get them from his guy?

[airhead]

Bump

[shakhak]

In a campaign you can loot magic items but they do not add to your abilities in the current battle. You can use them in the next skirmish but you have to account for the points.

 

Looting spells could be a fun alternative but I could see it throwing the point value off also. A single firestorm can change the game, getting one when your enemy has taken the point cost for it could be deadly.

 

I've also wondered about the Spell Caster's spell. When I've played we gave all spell points and armor points to the killing side.

[Mengu]

I wouldn't award spell points for a killed spellcaster. Spellcasters (especially mages) are very squishy. That's why they have relatively low point values, but high point spells. At least that would be my reasoning behind the design if I had to guess...

[Cerridwyn1st]

Airhead, I think you are trying for a little more juice than is intended. In campaign play, you can loot for items or to roll on the loot table for resources, but not both.

 

So you get one chance to loot and that's it. Taking the spells from a corpse as magical scrolls is something I picked up out of the campaign section, by the way.

 

Shak, I get your point about how getting an extra Firestorm late game could really throw off the game. But so does getting 250 points for one model.

 

When I'm running, you can loot the spells and they become "scrolls" that can be cast by a magic user of the same type. So if you loot Mage spells and you don't have a caster, they are useless to you.

[shakhak]

Loading up a spell caster with spells then not counting them in the Bounty Point system almost throughs off the system.

If you play a game of 1,000 points I believe each side should be able to claim 1,000 points if you play to the vary end. When a person gives a person spells it handicaps the other side. You have the opportunity for 1,000 points and they only have the opportunity for 850. That completely throughs off fairness on the battle field, in favor of people who load up on magic items and spells. I've played this type of game several times and we've came to that conclusion, from many games and discussions.

 

As for collecting the scrolls as a loot action being in Campaign rules. I think they still don't take effect until the next skirmish, I don't have the rulebook with me but I think it mentions something about looking over and studing the scrolls contents before you are able to use it. Like magic weapons. Then if you want to apply them for next game you still must adjust for the point value.

[Mengu]

I'll concede that point. But with that argument, if you're using looting rules, the side with more cheap models would be at a disadvantage against the side with fewer expensive models, right? (I may be goofing up without the rules in front of me).

 

In a point match scenario (especially a timed one), you could buy more spells so as to decline your opponent points, but if you overload, you might not get to cast them all before your mage goes down, hence putting you at a disadvantage for the rest of the game. Finding the viable balance would be a good tactic in composing your army.

[Froggy the Great]

Well, that's also assuming you have the luxury of spending actions to loot fallen models, rather than dealing with the living...

[Spartan6]

Or the un-living

[shakhak]

Another thing to think about is that giving a spell caster alot of spells and other units lots of magic items can literally prevent some from winning the game. They would have to kill all your models. ex: 1000 pt skirmish you take 450 points of spells and magic items(although a very poor strategy, it's possible) the max they could kill is 550 and if the game limit is at 600, it really pushes the system.

 

And to counteract the overloading aspect a player could easily spread spells out among multiple units. This is done especially easy with Darkspawn or Crusaders where leaders and heros have spell slots of 2/4 or higher.

[airhead]

Ok, so I can fix up 3 mages at about 50 points each. Load them up with goodies and spells. Give them each a 50 point sargent for a total of 1000 points. Get wiped off the board and lose 300 points (plus loot roles) to the enemy. Kill half of his stuff for 500 points (guess?) and win the game?

[Cerridwyn1st]

Ok, so I can fix up 3 mages at about 50 points each.  Load them up with goodies and spells.  Give them each a 50 point sargent for a total of 1000 points.  Get wiped off the board and lose 300 points (plus loot roles) to the enemy.  Kill half of his stuff for 500 points (guess?) and win the game?

Sorry, Airhead, won't work. Sergeants usually cannot have Elites in thier troups. Mages are always Elites, and you must have at least four grunts in your troup to balance the Elite addtion. Also, most powerful mages are Unique, so you are only allowed one.

 

If you wanted to run at least two spellcasters in a troop, you would need to have them under the command of a Warlord, and you would have to include eight grunts to balance them out. A troop must have four grunts or adepts to every elite that the unit contains.

 

If you ran Darkspawn or Overlords, your Warlord is a pretty heavy magical hitter, and can carry up to two Elites. I believe that both have some really cheap fodder for Grunts as well.

 

So you could have your Overlord with two other Magic Users, plus eight cheap grunts. Not sure how this would work out point-wise, but that's eleven models total, just under the maximum a Warlord can field under his direct command.

 

Oh, and Shak, if your opponent is rigging the th game by stacking his points into stuff you can't take for points, then play for an objective. If you attain the objective, you win, regardless of the points. If you don't attain the objective, you lose; points be damned.

 

In campaign play, this is exactly how it works. If you choose to take a skirmish to the table instead of resolving through dice rolls, then you will take the hex if you crush your opponent. Looting results in capturing resources. From what I an tell, there isn't a way to gain points by killing an opponent.

 

I would imagine that the points stacking is more problem in that "other" system, where it seems people will try all kinds of dirty tricks to try to make sure they win.

[smokingwreckage]

I'd just like to say that if a "degenerate" tactic is allowed by the rules it's either fair game OR the rules need fixing.

 

ie, either it is an intentional part of the game's design and can be anticipated and overcome, or it's an accident (or mistake) in the game's design, and needs to corrected by an up-front house rule and preferrably, errata or at the very least the next edition of the rules.

 

I strongly suspect that attempting to beat the other guy by spending your points in a foolish way and thus denying him/her victory even when she/he delivers you a resounding trouncing will *not* work, but you should definitely try it out and see what happens, then report back here with your results. Go now!

[Qwyksilver]

I wish I could get my gaming group to play Warlord. I have a few rules lawyers and power gamers that would ferret out the potential for such plots fairly quickly.