How about them d8's in CAV?

[vejlin]

@Super Jag: Did you recieve the stats i emailed you? Did you find them usefull?

[Super Jag]

VEJLIN... yes I did receive them. Thanks for your help. Our last session of CAV suddenly got changed to Warlord demonstration games. So, we're still hopfeull to fiddle with the d8 format and see what happens. I do still plan to post some results sooner or later. At least for now I can compare statistical percentages of both your charts and form a hypothesis.

[Super Jag]

Finally had a chance to play CAV today and try the d8's.

 

3500 points per side combined arms.

6x4 foot table.

8 terrain pieces (1 sizeable hill, 5 light woods, intersecting river).

D8 was used in place of D10 ONLY for Target Locks & Shooting (all else was d10).

 

Excalibur's Wrath force: (upgrades not listed here)

Section 1: 2 x Butcher, Sovereign III, Rhino

Section 2: 4 x Kharls

Section 3: 2 x Sultans

 

Iron Vipers force: (upgrades not listed here)

Section 1: 2 x Kikyus, 2 x Tsuisekis

Section 2: 2 x Gladiator, Sovereign III, Talon

Section 3: Wight, Katana, Dictator, Warlord

 

This game took 2.5 hours to complete and finished with an attritional win by the Iron Vipers.

 

GENERAL FEEDBACK OF THE D8... for this particular game both players involved and several spectators all agreed:

 

1. D8's did NOT slow down the game.

2. 2 critical hits did occur... both times were situations where a critical was virtually expected.

3. The majority of damage inflicted to units was steady with no "one-roll massive damages" occuring. 1-2 points was a consistent result with a handful of 3 or more damage results too.

4. It seemed that upgrades (particularly crew) would be more effective.

5. During bad rolling stretches and/or lost initiatives the "short end of the stick" player got beat up but certainly not annihilated.

 

After only one game using d8's it's too early to make it policy. However, our campaign coordinator likes it so much he's planning to use it in our new campaign (and so far noone is complaining). We're all very pleased with the theoretical and practical application of d8 to CAV.

 

I'll continue posting d8 feedback after upcoming games.

[Super Jag]

Just played a second game of CAV while using d8s.

 

4,000 point combined arms forces per side

6x4 foot table

17 terrain pieces (10 Buildings, 5 light woods, 2 river sections)

d8 used ONLY for TL & Shooting (all else d10)

 

Excalibur's Wrath Force: (7.8% points alloted to upgrades)

Section 1: 2 x Thunderbird, 2 x Starhawk 6

Section 2: 4 x Despot

Section 3: 4 x Sabre (weapons swapped for Stilleto turret)

Section 4: 2 x Harpy, 2 x Kikyu

 

Iron Vipers Force: (36.6% points alloted to upgrades)

Section 1: Revenant, 2 x Gladiator II, Ghost

Section 2: 2 x Ghast, 2 x Longbow

Section 3: 2 x Chieftan, 2 x Despot

 

This game was completed in just under 3 hours with an attritional win by the Excalibur's Wrath Force.

 

Game Notes:

1. The winning force did have the fortune of winning card initiative numerous times throughout the early turns of the game. Still, it was agreed upon by players and spectators that it was NOT as devastating because of the limited high-low splits of d8's.

2. Once again the only times whereby damages of 3+ occured on single dice rolls was when it was expected (e.g.: Weapon + Range + TL = +10, versus Armor + Pilot = +4... net result +6 for attacker).

3. There were NO critical hits in this game, but numerous results of 2-3 damage points did occur per dice rolls.

4. Defensive Fire did seem to be less lethal but still a factor.

 

A handful of other CAV gamers who've been able to watch these past two games have got stoked about playing again, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE OF THE D8.

[vejlin]

Iron Vipers Force: (36.6% points alloted to upgrades)

Section 1: Revenant, 2 x Gladiator II, Ghost

Section 2: 2 x Ghast, 2 x Longbow

Section 3: 2 x Chieftan, 2 x Despot

A Ghost ? heavily modified I'm guessing.

 

Sounds very interresting with the d8's, I'm guessing that this makes super heavies with good values against hard targets, and with good armour (and DTs) themselves, that much more valuable. This should also make crew upgrades more valuable (think yiu pointed this out yourself).

 

Has d8's affected the way you construct you forces ?

[Super Jag]

While I'm still undecided whether the d8 format makes the crew and unit upgrades more valuable, most of the others here are inclined to say yes.

 

Personally I've given more consideration to using super heavies because logic seems that they should last longer. However, of the 4 Super Heavies used between the two games, 2 were destroyed, one had 5 DT's inflicted, and the last received 2 DT's.

 

There hasn't been anything so far that couldn't reasonably be destroyed, especially if the "concentrated fire power" tactic was utilized. In fact, this tactic seems to be a bit more important while using d8's.

[Lord Pravage]

Just an FYI,

 

I posted something similar a while back, while it doesnt use d8s you might consider doing this scheme to speed the game up faster:

 

These do NOT change any probabilities in any way. If you think the probabilities have changed, prove it.

 

 

Target lock

1.) attacker adds his/her target lock(+ modifiers) and subtracts the

opponent's ecm. Once this number is agreed upon go to step 2.

2.) attacker rolls 2d10 for target lock.

3.) add the values in steps one and two. If value is greater than 11

then target lock succeds

 

 

Damage

1.) attacker adds his/her damage potential for the weapon

(+modifiers/target lock/etc) and subtracts the opponent's armor(with

opponent's modifiers).

2.) attacker rolls 2d10 for each weapon.

3.) add the values in steps one and two. The resultant value is

looked up on the alternative damage table below:

 

Damage table

25+ Critical

24 4DP

23 3DP +SUP

22 3DP

21 2DP + SUP

20 2 DP

19 2 DP

18 1 DP+ SUP

17 1 DP

16 1 DP

15 1 DP

less than 15 No Damage

(please note that Damage starts at an 'easier to remember' value of 15 with suppression at 18,21, and 23 <hmm think legal ages and you have the first two>. 25+ is a crit. All in all, I believe that they are easier numbers to remember)

[Super Jag]

Lord Pravage... thanks for the input. I do seem to recall this information somewhere in the past. It makes sense and in fact is more in line with Reaper's current direction with its RAGE format. I like that it's retained simple practicality.

 

The d8 format is something we'ver REALLY taken a liking to as a group of players. We've just started a CAV campaign and there are 11 players involved. Many of these players are anxious to play again BECAUSE of the implementation of the d8.

 

I've already mentioned your format and some of the other suggestions and as a matter of preference everyone here wants the d8 over anything else. Reasoning for is that it is a VERY simple change that doesn't affect the core rules that are used (other than the fact that the original d10 isn't used). Damage has been much more realistic. Otherwise, EVERYTHING stays the same.

 

Things that players didn't see as fitting were having to use more than one dice, or going to a NON-Contested dice roll, or utilizing a different damage chart.

 

As our campaign is now underway, I plan to post more feedback regarding the d8.