Durak Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 I would say that with all the locks made for guns today there shouldn't be any child related gun incidents. I have a lock for my gun which goes through the ejection port. On top of that it is locked away in a safe. Its not the fault of children its the parents fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coogle Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 A gun is a tool, like a hammer or a knife. If used for it's purpose all three can be deadly. The problem is not with the tool, it's with the users. Knowing the correct way to use a tool, will not stop you using it for other purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Guns are for hunting, self defence, and keeping the King of England out of my house. Seriously though, grew up with guns and because of that, they were not "Forbidden Fruit" so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastman Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 In most cases, as soon as someone tries to make an absolute generalization, there will be exceptions. Overall, I think the basic statement is correct in a "nearly all" way. I don't remember how old I was the first time I went with my dad to shoot my grandfather's .22 rifle, but I was taught what to do and what not to do before I was ever allowed to handle it. I've probably been the owner of that .22 for the last 20 or so years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodnik Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 As a general rule, I try not to make my guns, knives, hammers, screwdrivers, pencils, pens, magazines, cinder blocks, bricks, rocks, automobiles, rat poison, drain cleaner, gasoline, kerosene, diesel fuel, motor oil, exacto razors, lamp chords, rope, tire-tools, toe nail clippers, nail files, hacksaws, jigsaws, skillsaws, two-by-fours, sharp pointy sticks, swords, axes, hatchets, chainsaws, thumbtacks, pool cues, pool balls, plastic wrap, piano wire, guitar strings, nail-guns, staplers, pots and pans, weed whacker, lawnmower, hairspray, cigarette lighter, and finally, my tweety-bird keychain to any maniacal idiot. I suspect that if a person takes a notion to kill someone---they'll be creative enough to find an instrument. As for accidents---gun accidents are few and far between--most of the time it leads back to stupidity. There are not many folks left in this world that don't know what gun misuse can lead to, whether they've been trained or not. To pick up a gun when you don't know anything about 'em--stupid. To own a gun and not teach your child about 'em--stupid. Shooting at anything you can't POSITIVELY identify--stupid. Leaving a loaded gun where a child can reach it unsupervised--stupid. Shooting yourself while cleaning a gun--stupid. Climbing a tree with a loaded gun--stupid. Tripping and shooting yourself---stupid. Owning a gun and not having any inkling of the responsibility required to own a gun---stupid. Giving a gun to a maniac---stupid. Not chlorinating the gene pool against stupid people---stupid. Anyway, I propose we outlaw stupidity. I'm sure it would make a difference in the statistics. The fact is, that any of these things---along with the plethora of other crap any one of us can list--- go against the common sense required to keep and use a gun. To own a gun when you have no common sense---stupid. I submit that folks that are victims of gun-related accidents are not gun victims, but victims of errors in judgement. Victims of the person's bad judgement holding the gun at the time of the accident. Usually it leads to a "single thing" that could have been done that would have prevented the accident. Chamber cleared--check, safety on--check, muzzle down--check, not doing anything stupid--check. Here's a question that my dad asked me years ago--- "Son, how many people do you think are accidently killed by an unloaded gun?" "None, dad." "Wrong---almost every single one of 'em". There is a bit of infinite wisdom in that, for those that understand. Always, but always, when a gun lands in your hand---PLEASE clear the chamber. ONLY trust your own judgement, never trust the judgement of someone else when it comes to a weapon of any kind. Victims of violent crime are victims of the maniac that committed the crime---not the gun they were holding at the time. Okay...I'm off my soapbox and back to paintin'.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourningcloud Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 hehe i like what im seein on this forum. heres my two cents worth-if we keep adding em up well eventually get a few dimes worth of gun wisdom, and wont that be something? in he state of california (where i live), approximately 1 in 4 homes contains a firearm.(remember, thats the number of homes; most homes with a gun have more than 1) in the state of california, approximately 1 in 12 homes has a pool. yet children are 4 times more likely to die from drowning than from a firearm, whether deliberate or accidental. makes you wonder what we really need to regulate its like rodnik said-we need a serious ammendment on the regulation of stupid. maybe well start with licensing and registration, you know, just for the really big stupid things, like using dynamite to get rid of a gofer problem. then gradually well make more and more stupid things prohibited, until virtually the most trivial stupid act is regulated, like wearing argyle with paisley or trying to get into the short line at the dmv. of course, there will be those advocates of "stupid" rights who demand that there be no regulation at all of stupid. these radicals can likely see through our plan to eventually ban all stupid, one stupid thing at a time, while initiating a smear campaing against stupid, as well as labeling thoe who insist on their "right to keep and bear stupid" as dangerous radicals and uneducated cousin-kissers. this false labeling will demonize them in the public eye, rendering their arguments impotent. heck , we'll even advocate and offer to fund frivolous lawsuits against perpetrators of stupid acts to discourage others from joining the "stupid" lobby. eventually we will have a stranglehold on the stupid industry from which all rights to "stupid" can be eradicated. wont it be nice to live in a stupid free world? an off-the-cuff metaphor, and my two cents. for those who "get" it, i hope you like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coogle Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 In Aussie land where the percentage of firearms is way lower than the states, and way stricter, I've just heard of shootings where if the person didn't have guns they couldn't have killed the number of people. I'd say what's needed is a Psych exam every 2 years for licence renewal. Kind of like getting your driving license, you actually have to show you are stable enough to own one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Soapdish Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 An interesting but questionable statement came up the other day by a couple of gun enthusiasts. I'll try and quote them as best as possible... "No one who grew up learning how to handle a gun/rifle has committed a violent crime with a gun/rifle." The emphasis, as it was later explained, is that children who grow up around guns and LEARN TO RESPECT their potential DO NOT go around using them on other people. Supposedly the violent crimes with guns are being committed by people who DID NOT grow up with proper gun education. While it makes sense, it does make me raise an eyebrow of speculation. I will likely research it a bit... but for now am curious if anyone has any background on this discussion. Well, I'm willing to bet that you won't get any testimonials disproving that statement, although you should get a fair number supporting it. So the question is whether there is a correlation - either positive or negative - between gun ownership, with proper education, and violence. I'd bet a lot that there appears to be - meaning that there is a lower proportion of violent crime from people that were taught gun safety than that were not. I'm not sure if that means anything though. I think that there is a strong correlation between stable households where the parents actually get involved with their children and lower violent crime. I presume that there is a similar correlation between parents getting involved with their kids' lives and teaching them about gun safety. By that I mean I presume that parents that take the trouble to teach their kids about gun safety tend to be involved with their kids as opposed to those that would have a specific reason to teach their kids about gun safety (such as having a gun in the house), but not doing so. I'm not sure if there's any correlation beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstar Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Guns are for hunting, self defence, and keeping the King of England out of my house. Oh, so Thaaaat's how you get rid of that bastard! heh. Shoulda kept that gun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Soapdish Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 in he state of california (where i live), approximately 1 in 4 homes contains a firearm.(remember, thats the number of homes; most homes with a gun have more than 1) in the state of california, approximately 1 in 12 homes has a pool. yet children are 4 times more likely to die from drowning than from a firearm, whether deliberate or accidental. I don't think that proves anything in and of itself. I'm pretty sure that children in California generally spend a lot more time swimming than using a firearm - probably by a factor of more than 12. Plus, I assume that parents would be a lot more likely to let kids play in the pool with minimal supervision than with a gun with minimal supervision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstar Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 in he state of california (where i live), approximately 1 in 4 homes contains a firearm.(remember, thats the number of homes; most homes with a gun have more than 1) in the state of california, approximately 1 in 12 homes has a pool. yet children are 4 times more likely to die from drowning than from a firearm, whether deliberate or accidental. I don't think that proves anything in and of itself. I'm pretty sure that children in California generally spend a lot more time swimming than using a firearm - probably by a factor of more than 12. Plus, I assume that parents would be a lot more likely to let kids play in the pool with minimal supervision than with a gun with minimal supervision. I live in California, I'm 32 and have lived here about 20 years on and off... Let me just say, that as a child, when swimming in our pool, my parents ALWAYS made sure that my Forty-Four was on safety BEFORE I jumped in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vejlin Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 A gun is a tool, like a hammer or a knife. If used for it's purpose all three can be deadly. The problem is not with the tool, it's with the users. Knowing the correct way to use a tool, will not stop you using it for other purposes. Yes a gun IS a tool, but it's a tool made for killing and a very effective tool. A hunting rifle is a tool made for killing game, assault rifles and pistols are tools made for killing (or better yet maiming) humans. Let's not forget this. There is absolutely NO excuse in my oppinion for having children playing with a people-killing tool (I do however see reason for teaching children to use a game-killing tool). Other tools have safety mechanisms built into them, but for some reason guns don't need to be made safer. My oppinions in short: Anti-deer gun OK if you're a hunter. Sporting gun OK if you use it in a club. Anti-human guns OK if you're in the police or armed services and on duty. Admittedly I'm from Europe so my views are very non American. About Bowling for Columbine: While I agree that Michael Moore uses a lot of cheap tricks, I still believe he has a lot of valid points: 1) The US does have an awfull lot of firearm related killings, no matter what this can't be ignored. (although one might argue that it's a price worth paying for the right to bear arms) 2) Guns are very easy to aquire in the US. Also for people with no training in using them. 3) The media in the US has the population scared. Moore is out to figure out what is causing all of these firearms related deaths. You might disagree with his conclusion (scared people armed to the teeth are the cause), but the problem still exists and needs to be solved. Back to original topic: Like any other tool people need to know how to use it before using it. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vejlin Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 in he state of california (where i live), approximately 1 in 4 homes contains a firearm.(remember, thats the number of homes; most homes with a gun have more than 1) in the state of california, approximately 1 in 12 homes has a pool. yet children are 4 times more likely to die from drowning than from a firearm, whether deliberate or accidental. I don't think that proves anything in and of itself. I'm pretty sure that children in California generally spend a lot more time swimming than using a firearm - probably by a factor of more than 12. Plus, I assume that parents would be a lot more likely to let kids play in the pool with minimal supervision than with a gun with minimal supervision. I agree, the two numbers can't be compared. Besides, even if they were comparable it could still be argued that both pools and guns should be regulated. "A lot of people die from cancer/car accidents/whatever each year so we shouldn't really concern ourselves with airplane safety" is an equally pointless statement that is easier to see the error of. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint of Sinners Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 WHat the heck I'll bite... Proper respect for guns won't stop a person from commenting a crime... their parents teaching them morals will (except in under extreme conditions). I think thats all theat needs be said about that. On a personal note, I grew up around guns. I was taught to respect them (which was later reinforced when some little punk @$$ Beeyuch shot me). ANd honestly I really don't care for them but I like have the freedom to be able to own one. I don't but I like the option to be able to. Perhaps its the romantic in me but I preffer 36" of cold hard steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOldcorn Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Ok please accept that the following is based on sterotypes and is making broad generalisations. No offence is meant to anyone in particular. Being raised around guns or not is not the issue. The issue is how you are raised. If you are raised in a "normal" household where you are taught right from wrong, to respect the law and to respect life then whether there are guns around or not will make very little difference. I live in the UK where guns are rare. The number of gun related deaths are in the average year below one hundred. Now this would imply that if I went to a country where guns were readily available I am likely to go on a wild killing spree. However I feel this is more than a little unlikely. Conversly if I was brought up in a household where there was a lack of moral upbringing, no respect for the law or other people. Then I am far more likely to be dangerous if given a weapon of any kind. It is an issue of upbringing not access to weapons that determines how people will use and treat firearms. Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.